21. The 3 Pillars of Financial Transformation - with Hannah Munro

Join Hannah Munro, MD of itas, as she talks about the 3 pillars of financial transformation and what it takes to lead a successful financial transformation project. With over a decade of experience supporting finance teams to manage change and delivering 100s of projects across a number of industries, she is going to share some top tips on how to make your next transformation project a success. 

 Key highlights:

• Understanding the 3 pillars of financial transformation 
• The science behind successful transformation projects 
• Motivating your team during a transformation project
• Removing barriers to change
• Practical tips for your next project

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Transcript

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Welcome to CFO 4.0, the future of finance. The CFO role is changing rapidly, moving from cost controller to strategic visionary. And with every change comes opportunity. We are here to help you take advantage of this transition. to win at work, drive your career forwards, and lead with confidence. Join Hannah Munro, Managing Director of ITAS, a financial transformation consultancy, as she interviews key experts to give you real-world advice and guidance on how to transform your processes, people, and data. Welcome to CFO 4.0, the future of finance.

Hannah Munro 0:48

Hi everybody and welcome to this episode of CFO 4.0. We're actually going to try something a little different this week and I thought it would be great to get your feedback to see if this is something you'd like to learn more about, both in terms of topics but also whether this format works for you. So normally on CFO 4.0 I get interested guests and featured speakers, normally from books that I have read that have inspired my journey working with customers to help them channel But this week, actually, I want to talk to you about some of the things that I've already learned and actually share with you some of the learnings that I've had over the last sort of decade in terms of financial transformation. And I think it's good to put it into context because I think there's a lot of talk about change management, leading change across all areas of businesses. But what they don't quite understand sometimes is the specifics when it comes to financial transformation. And so that's what I'm trying to do on this podcast. is actually take all of that learning around innovation and around change and actually bring it back to a context for finance teams to help them drive transformation within their businesses. Okay, so I think it's good for us to understand what I mean by financial transformation, because transformation in itself, digital transformation is a word that's used across loads of different industries and in lots of different contexts. So when we are talking about financial transformation, I am talking about the shift of the finance team from the concept of being a bean counter, which is quite a derogatory expression But it's true. It's that person, they're responsible just to produce the numbers, to being a finance business partner, and a growth accelerator. And obviously, some finance... teams may not see themselves as, or certainly not yet as a growth accelerator, but that's what a finance team should be to their business. It should be a critical part of the strategy driving it forwards. And so actually with this, hopefully with this podcast and with all of your, everything else that's going on around the world in terms of coronavirus and everything else that's happening, hopefully that is starting to shift your team and your business in a direction that sees finance as a critical part of its strategy. So that's what we're going to talk about today. So what is that sits behind or is needed for financial transformation to happen? And there's a really interesting stat from a study back in 2014 that over 95% of innovation efforts fail. Now, this isn't financial innovation for efforts, but actually innovation efforts across the board fail. And a lot of this is because people don't understand that a bit like leadership, transformation is a skill. Yeah, some people have a natural talent for it and we all know those people. But actually in itself, there is a strategy to delivering financial transformation. The good news is that it can be learned. So the way I like to talk about financial transformation is in terms of pillars. So imagine you've got three pillars with a bench over the top, right? And those three pillars are people, processes and technology. And I purposely put people and technology at E the side of the at the end yep so processes act as a bolster yep they hold up the middle but without people yeah and everything that comes with people which is culture motivation purpose without that critical piece if you dropped that pillar you get that sliding effect so the bench would slide to the side and everything would fall off yep and the same goes for technology So if you remove the element of technology, then, you know, the bench would slide to the other side and everything would fall off there. And depending on the degree of slip, yeah, will determine how much of a problem you have. Now, I think it's really important that we talk about all three pillars, yeah, because processes can help prop things up. isn't necessarily a deciding factor. But without, and a lot of businesses are so focused on the administration side that they don't actually have the time to focus on anything else, and which is why we end up in this conversation. So, and you might think it's really strange that actually what I'm talking about today is that technology isn't the only piece that drives financial transformation. I know it's crazy, but it's true and I think that's really important to understand actually I go into a lot of projects where they don't necessarily need my help from a technology perspective but that tends to be the reason I'm brought in because that is the area that I am good at and my team are good at but actually we tend to have to have a number of conversations and help drive the people and the process side as well and again that's part of the reason I started this podcast is actually I spend I spend a lot of time obviously being incredibly good at the bit that I'm responsible for, which is technology. And I try to help people with the people and the processes as we go along. But actually, there's such a lack of knowledge out there of how critical it is to the financial transformation process that for me, I see this podcast as a way to help change that, to bring people and processes and technology as a combined piece to the forefront of financial transformation. So I'm going to talk about some of those elements. I'm going to talk about people. I'm going to talk about processes. I'm going to talk about technology um i've only got 40 minutes so i am going to go into as much detail as i can um and hopefully you'll come out of it with a burning interest to find out more um so hopefully a few golden nuggets of information you can take away and apply to your next financial transformation effort and you know and you know as always i try to make it entertaining a conversation as it could possibly be given that we are talking about financial transformations So I find it interesting, but I can understand where some other people might not. So hopefully the reason you're listening to this podcast is that it is something you're interested in. So actually, even if I was the most boring person in the world, this would still be an interesting conversation. So let's talk firstly about people. All right. So people encompasses quite a wide range of areas. And to be honest, I could probably do a whole podcast on just this and I could probably do an entire series of content just on this. But I'm going to share with you some basics around how and why this is so important to your financial transformation efforts. So the first thing to understand is that having and giving your team the motivation and creating environment in which they can be innovated is critical to these financial transformation efforts. Now, I'm just going to take that step back. And what I mean by innovation is creating an environment where they can Think creatively. I know creative numbers doesn't quite, well, they're used together in a slightly more worrying context, but actually innovation happens when people are in a safe space where they are motivated and they are driven in the right way. So for those of you that haven't read Dan Pink, he is one of my favorite authors. And he was one of the first I read when it first came to transformation. And he talks about motivation. So what motivates us? And what was fascinating is that he has proven that the typical carrot and stick rewards are not what drives most people, right? And in fact, it will drive people, but it will very often drive the wrong behaviors, right? And it actually can hamper productivity. So the way they proved this is what they did was they they basically gave people a challenge, right? And it was the matchstick challenge. And if you've been to any kind of motivational training as part of leadership, you will know this. So bear with me, we'll get over it. But what they did is they gave people a challenge with matchboxes and a candle and they challenged them to find a solution to the problem. Now, what was really interesting is that those that were giving a financial reward were less creative and less innovative in the solution. It actually took longer to come to the solution, right? So those that were driven by the, or had no financial, just doing it for the sake of, for the love of solving the problem, they were the most successful. Okay, so what does that mean? So the bit you've got to think about is when you're going into a financial transformation project, how are you motivating people? about this, right? So if you're saying, right, you're going to put it into, I'm going to put it into your KPIs and then, you know, your KPI is driven by, you know, you get a reward off the back of that. You have to be very, very careful is that you reward the right behaviours, yeah? And that actually you're not creating an environment in which they are are not motivated yet, or that they are so focused on the financial reward or their bonus that they are actually not doing it for the right reasons. So Pink talks about three elements of what motivates us. So autonomy, the ability to choose how you work and how you deliver something. The second thing is mastery, which is the ability to learn and develop your own self. And the third thing is purpose, right? So purpose is critical to any change leadership, you know, project. And if you have ever been, again, on any change leadership courses, they will talk about Kotter's theory of change. Yep. And pretty much any kind of leadership related project would always talk about purpose, you know, If you've read Simon Sinek's Why, again, that is a fascinating read, and I really recommend it. But that is also about talking about why certain companies are successful. And those companies, which is very interesting, are those that are considered some of the most innovative in the world, right? So we have those three elements, autonomy, mastery, and purpose. So You might be coming back to me go, I thought I didn't realize this was a leadership and a motivational podcast. No, it's not. But in order to deliver leadership, to deliver innovation in your finance team, you have to have a well-motivated team, yeah? And they have to have the freedom to deliver this innovation. And the way you can do that is, there's a few ways you can do it. So the first thing I think you need to consider is understanding what motivates your team, right? And yes, financial rewards are great as long as they are not the main motivation. So as an example, rather than saying, we're going to put it in your KPIs and you're going to get a bonus based off it, you can talk to them about the opportunity for you to develop. So very few finance teams get the opportunity to put system change projects on their CV. Now I do it and I've done it for 10 years. So I have been through hundreds of projects, but for most people, it's a rare recurrence, especially those junior members, right? So the one thing I would suggest to you when you're approaching any kind of innovation, financial transformation project, whether that's systems process, et cetera, give time, Give those younger and motivated members a chance to shine. Bring them in and give them, I won't say complete autonomy, but give them some control over what they're doing. Guide them, of course, put boundaries around it. Make sure they have the skill set to make good decisions. but give them some autonomy around their choices, around how they plan and coach them through it. And coaching is one of those things where I'd love to do, and hopefully we'll get somebody in to talk about that as a skillset, but that in itself is a really interesting one. So the first thing is autonomy. So give your team autonomy, get them involved in the process, allow them to help shape the project that you're working and to have some input from an early stage. Yep, easy. Obvious, yes, but it's amazing how many projects I come into where they haven't necessarily been involved. So I like to put the basics out there because I think it's important for everyone to hear them. The second piece is mastery. So when you're talking to your team, I think the piece they need to understand is that this is going to help them master a skill. Now, it could be that this implementation of the new software or this change to process will free up their time so that they can focus and master the skill or the reason that they're in there. So that could be developing more of a strategic skill set. So shifting from that administration aspect and into more of a strategic advisory role for the business, which a lot of people aspire to. Yep. But you need to tie it back to their personal development. Yep. So the fact that they can have an opportunity to put this on their CV, the fact that they can, if they wanted to say that they've supported and helped guide a team, be part of a team that's implemented a number of financial innovation projects, because this isn't a one-off. So financial transformation doesn't happen with one project. It should be an ongoing piece for that future thinking, innovative finance team. So talking about that, you can talk about the skills that they are going to develop through this. So not only the ability to analyze processes, to feed into scopes, to learn new software, whatever it is that they are going to get out of it, because a financial transformation doesn't just have to be technology implementations, to be very clear, but it does tend to be driven by or a technology does tend to be part of the financial transformation process. So think about that. So how do you give them a way to build their personal skills? Yeah. And to do that could be project management. It could be any, you know, it could be communication. That could be the lead or the feed into this project from the rest of the business. Yeah. So there's lots of things that you can talk about with your team about the skills they're going to gain through this process. So they feel like they are going to gain something by working through this financial transformation process. And the third thing is purpose. And I do think this is something that gets sometimes lost either in translation or it's not brought to the fore as much as it should be, which is why are you doing this in the first place? Yeah, so, and I see CFOs and finance directors as all key in basically talking about what life is going to be like once you get on the other side, yeah? Why are you doing this in the first place? What is the impact on the business? How critical is this to the business, yeah? And understanding, helping them to understand your vision for a finance team and what you're hoping that they are gonna get out of it is so, so critical to delivering a good finance project. So let's just summarize that. So motivation. So in order to get your team into a space where they can deliver on a financial transformation process, they need to be motivated, right? And these are the three elements of motivation are autonomy, mastering, and purpose. So homework, go away, have a think. If you've got a financial transformation project, have a think about what ways you can tie that back into those three values, right? So the second piece around innovation is is you need to create an environment where things are more open. And that comes down to relationships with your team. So, and there are certain things that can stifle creativity. And bear with me, because this is important. But actually, in order to be innovative, you need to be able to fail, right? So, Most people will, and certainly people in accounts, is they are so concerned with going wrong. Yeah, they get a number wrong and it's a big deal. And let's be honest, the whole purpose, the thing with finance is that the numbers have to be right. They can't be wrong. So when you're coming through and you're trying to get your team to think creative, that can almost hold them back. Yeah. So you've got a team that are incredibly talented, right? And they are so detail orientated and are all focused around delivering the right numbers when and you actually what you're doing trying to do is to shift into yes we need to do that and that is our you know that's part of our core function but it's not the only thing we do and actually we need to be able to look and interpret those numbers and think outside of the box when it comes to driving change and building new processes and and having these kind of strategic conversations wider than just the finance team. Yeah. So that's something to consider, right? Is that this is a big shift for a lot of finance teams and you will have members in your team that tend to fall in what I call three different categories. So you have those that love change, right? And I am one of them. I live and breathe change. It excites me. It's what gets me up in the morning, but it is the reason I do this job. So And I pick people from my team who live and breathe change and it excites them. The ability to make a difference. And we all have some of that in us, but some of us have it to a degree or more. But we don't necessarily, coming in and helping people with projects, Those kind of people don't tend to want to stay in the same role for a long time. So they tend to be the people that will go into a role for maybe 12 to 18 months. It tends to be a challenging organization or an organization that's just about to go through some change and they're really excited about it, but they're not necessarily going to be your long-termers. You'd like to think you have enough ongoing innovation to drive them through. But if this is a 12, you know, if this is, um part of a longer term a strategy you might keep hold of them for a little bit longer but you need to bear that in mind so that's your that is your trail think of them as your trailblazers the ones that are going to help lead the change yeah are they going to be right out in front and they're going to be the first out of the box and this is they're the ones that really get excited and love this part yeah the second type of profile is those that you know, can cope with change. Like they don't mind it as long as it doesn't, you know, it's not completely ongoing. Things aren't constantly changing. Yep. That they tend to be quite, they're the people that will just get on with things in the background and they are the ones that will just do the doing. and they will they won't necessarily be the one out in front you know getting all excited about it but actually they're really critical because they're the ones that will do the detail and get in into the nuts and bolts of the change and make it happen right so there's two of your your types of profiles and the third one is the complete antithesis of the first so they are the person that is actively opposed to change right um they are the people that are genuine and it allows of this comes from fear so a lot of resistance to change comes from a place of fear so they actively are resistant to change yeah and so those are the ones that you need to work on and i i i do believe that people can they can look at things differently right and And I do think if you approach change in the right way, you can get those individuals on board. If you can tie into their motivation, and that's why I do think motivation is a theory, is really critical to anyone leading a transformation project. But also you need to help them, you need to help remove the fear. that sits behind it. Now, that could be a work-related fear. So for instance, they could be worried that they'll be out of a job if this process changes or new piece of technology. It could be that they are more open to losing their job because they're not the only one that knows how to do it. So single man dependency is something that every finance team should work incredibly hard to get rid of. But a lot of people will build empires within teams because it gives them a sense of security. Yeah, it allows them to, not only to feel valued, but to feel like if they left, that the business will be able to cope. So they feel much more secure having their empire and being the only one that can deliver on that. So you need to refocus that attention and give them an empire of different, personally, I think you need to give them an empire of a different kind, which is allow them to help or certainly to help lead change, yeah? Because if they are seen as responsible for it, if it doesn't go well, it is sitting on their head, yeah? And so that then gives them an incentive. The third aspect of change, particularly with technology, and I do see this a lot, is that fear of, I can't do this, yeah? So a lot of... A lot of people are, some people are natural techies, yeah? So people naturally get tech, you know? Other people, it's a learned skill and they need longer to pick up new skills, all right? So you need to address those feelings of inadequacy, yeah? And perhaps it's something that they don't see as a strength of theirs. And so they will automatically not be wanting to, they will not want to be seen as weak by you or the rest of the team, yeah? So they then, they're the ones that will tend to have more resistance to change. So actually, when it comes to planning your training, you need to be on top of that. So you need to make sure that those individuals know how, firstly, you've understood that fear, but actually, you need to think about how you address that. Now, whether, so whether that's in how you train them, whether that's in how long you give them to do testing. There's all sorts of ways you can deal with it. And hopefully in a future podcast, we will have time to talk about that. But you need to address that. So there we go. So that's sort of my summary of fear. And I do think it's a critical piece. If you're wanting to remove resistance to change, you need to take away the fear. Yep. And you need to address it. And that person needs to have enough of a relationship with you and or whoever is leading this change to believe that when you say there is no reason to fear and you give them logical reasons, they can take that on board. Yep. The second thing that causes those individuals to dig their heels in is a lack of understanding of the importance of a project. Yeah. So just because it doesn't affect them as an individual, You need to really hammer home that purpose piece. So we talked about that earlier, but I think for those individuals that are strongly resistant to change, there is normally something driving it. Yeah. So it's normally a fear base, but also most of them want what is best for the organisation. Yeah. They want what is best for the team. And certainly if you've built a strong team, they will want that. So it's about making sure they understand the importance of this change. Yeah. And driving that forwards. Yeah. And the third thing you need to think about is removing barriers. So a classic one is that people will implement a big change, whether that's a system, et cetera, but not make allowances for the fact that individuals have to have to do their business as usual, right? So this is one of the most interesting things I find with implementations is there is an assumption that when people go into implementing a new technology, that they will have the time to do it in their normal nine to five, right? And if you think about this, most people won't actually implement a new technology until they're it's, you know, things are so busy that the team have no choice. Yeah. I'd love it if more people did, but very few people are ahead of the curve in terms of their scalability in finance. Finance tends to be the one that gets looked at when, you know, when you need to help making it higher or when your, you know, your team are working late into the night and, you know, or you haven't got, it's taking you too long to get the month end accounts. There's always something that triggers off a look at technology. Very rarely is it that done ahead of time. So at the point you actually go to implement a new technology, it does tend to be when you are at a point where you guys are already busy. So you need to figure out how you give people the space to make change. Yeah. So there's a couple of different ways you can do this. So very often an approach to transformation is not just about technology. There are other things going on in the organization. Maybe it's a restructure. And sometimes actually resourcing those new individuals early is a great way to give your team space. Yeah. So, you know, you can bring in project managers, right? you know externals yeah consultants that can work on a sort of a short-term contract basis for three to six months that can help give your team a bit of space um you could bring in temps you can You can do lots of things. You can remove the pressure. So depending on the size of organization, you can have a conversation with your wider leadership team and say, well, look, we kind of have two choices. We either create some space within our existing team by acknowledging all those non-necessary tasks that our team are picking up. are handed over. So it could be that your team are managing things like payroll or HR. Could you outsource that for three months? Yeah. It can be brought back in if you wanted to. It might be a great way to give them some more time to use all this data producing, but there's all sorts of things that you can consider. And without knowing your individual organization, I can't necessarily give you the answer, but you need to think about how you're going to give your team some space. Yeah. And again, if you give people space, that tends to remove a lot of resistance to change because not everybody is a workaholic like I am yeah um not everybody um wants to work you know most people you know they might have other commitments outside of work I don't know whether it's children it's horses it's families hobbies whatever it is and they may not want they may not want this change because they know it's going to be long hours week working weekends and they're just not in a space where that's something that they're excited about so Just bear that in mind when you're going through this process that you might want to consider giving people some space. All right. So like I said, there are lots of things around people that we could talk about. And depending on the reaction to this podcast, we might actually address some of those and do some more specialized sessions. But that's a couple of like the real sort of top level points that I think you should consider with any financial transformation project. So I think we've covered in a little bit of detail there the people pillar, as I like to think of it. But what's next? So the second piece is processes. All right. So one of the things I find fascinating is that when people are going through a financial transformation process, they don't necessarily understand how to review processes. processes, right? So again, over the years, I've done a lot of learning around, you know, the various different methodologies, sigma, et cetera, cause and effect, all of those kinds of things. But when you, when my biggest thing and the biggest challenge I give people is, so first you need to think big, right? But you also need to start small. which I know is a slight contradiction in terms, but you need to consider it. So you need to pick a starting point. So what tends to happen with a lot of process improvement implementations is that people look at it and go, right, we need to improve this process, but then it just gets too big and then it gets too wide and it just gets thrown in somebody's drawer and forgotten about. So the way I like to think to work through processes is to look at the big picture and understand where the problem is, right? So classic example is that your finance team are spending hours individually checking each invoice, right? And I've had this before where people have come to me and said, right, I want an approval process where I want to approve every single sales invoice that goes out, right? And my first question is why? Because at the end of the day, I could implement a digital check, you know, digital authorization process in there, but the most I can do is digitize it. why is it that you need to check every single invoice that comes out of the system in the first place, right? And then we go back to, so what is the root cause? Now, it could be bad data from the sales team. It could be, you know, in, I would say, Indiscriminate pricing, I'm not sure if that's the nicest way to put it, but creative pricing maybe, where finance people are the people that check all the pricing. Yeah, so they're the people that just make sure that someone isn't selling it. So actually by getting control of your pricing mechanisms and how your sales team is selling, you can actually get to the root cause of the problem and then you don't need to change that process. Yeah. And so understanding the root cause of why your processes are the way that they are is vital to any successful process improvement project. The other thing as well is that it's okay to say, We don't really have a good reason why we do this. So very often processes are created either by technology or by somebody that hasn't understood why they are doing something. So classic example is you come into a business. When you first come into business, you very often you will just do something because it is how you're told to do it, yeah? And at some point someone will come in and say, why are you doing that? And you've said, I genuinely have no idea. It's just the way I was originally taught. And so actually you have to give your team the ability to say, I genuinely do not know why we're doing it this way. Can we change it, right? And in fact, you need to encourage it. You need to reward them coming to you with those kinds of suggestions and you need to get them into a space where they can look for those areas all right so that's a big shift right because again this is where they need space because if they are just doing to the doing they've probably already got in their heads every time they hit this particular spot they think oh i need to sort that i'll try to get to this month and they just genuinely do not get around to making those changes yeah so it could be that they don't know how to use the software it could be that they um they want to see if there's a better way to do something but they just don't have the time or the brain space to do it so It comes back to that creating space, but you need to encourage the openness around processes. And whether it's a, at some point we'll get to this list, a list where somebody hits a snag, hits a problem and goes, we need to look into this. And they just stick it in an online document. But then you guys have a way to work through that document. So that's something that is a really good way. So that is something that's a really good way to step up and to really start to drive change within your organization. But if you do that, don't just fix that one problem. Take a step back and understand the root cause of the problem and why that is happening. And then my third point is to reimagine the process. Don't just try to automate it. And what do I mean by that? So You need to think about the purpose of the process, which is, I know, strange, but actually you need to take a step back and think about how the big picture could look, right? Again, classic example is approval readings. So very often when people go to implement a digital purchasing process, they will literally carbon copy their existing process that they're doing via email or paper and just put it into digital. And my point to you is to take a step back and reimagine the processes. So classic example, every single invoice needs to get approved by the department that it's allocated to. Well, why not just say that if the purchase order has been approved, that the goods have been received or we've confirmed that service has been delivered, why don't we just pay it and put it in the approved process? Why does it need to then go back through for an approval if the values match, if the goods have definitely been received? So again, very, very specific example, but you can see that actually it's so easy to just try and replicate and automate a process and digitize a process rather than really taking a step back.

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Hannah Munro 36:32

what's really interesting when it comes to processes, so there was, again, if you've read Nikolai or Salterra, they talk about the fact that it's been, it's harder for established companies to innovate, right, against, you know, startups, because they already have a way of doing things, which works. It may not work well, but it works. So actually, one of the reasons that startups are so successful is they don't just come in and do the same thing that everyone else is doing is they go how do we do this you know what is the best way to do this rather than how do we do it better yeah so That's something to consider when you're re-evaluating your processes. And obviously, they don't have processes to design. In fact, they're putting them in. So they tend to do it based on their outcomes and their vision and what they're there to do, rather than having to change existing processes that people are comfortable with, right? And when it comes to processes, the bit you need to think about is nudge theory, okay? So... What is nudge theory? So if anyone, so if you've ever been to a checkout, right? So supermarkets have nudge theory down to absolute art. So what they have done is designed their, they design their shelves, where you move around the supermarket. It's all done to make you buy more and spend more, right? And what nudge theory is, is how do you make it easy for people to make the decisions that you want them to make? Yeah. So how do you make it easy for them to shift into the way of working that you want it to do? So if you make it hard, they won't do it. Yeah. But you need to create the least path of resistance towards the way that you want to work. So classic example, expenses, right? You know, All businesses hate, well, lots of finance teams find expense handling really challenging, yeah? But if you give them the right tools and make it easier for them to manage, to go down the right routes and the digital routes and the routes that you want to follow, rather than carrying on with their existing paper process, then they will take the route of least resistance. Think of it like water, right? Yeah, water down a waterfall. It will literally take the path of last resistance. So you need to create that path of least resistance. Same thing as checkout. So When you go to the checkouts, if you're on a diet, you don't go to the checkout with a billion and one chocolate bars, you go to the healthy one because you know that you will be less tempted to shift back, right? So when you're implementing processes, it is really critical that you not only think about what is the change that you're going to do, but actually how are you going to ensure that your team, your business follows those new processes, yeah? And how do you encourage and create an environment or a path of least resistance in the direction that you want them to go. Okay, so what did we say? So firstly, understand the root cause, understand what is the problem with your process and understand why that process exists, yeah? reimagine the process rather than just streamlining or automating. So don't just produce the same Excel sheets faster, create a digital information hub that people can access on demand and when they want to and drill into rather than just you know, automating your existing Excel process. And ensure that when you implement processes, you think about how to make that the path of least resistance. So how do you make sure that those processes continue to and continue to be implemented and followed, you know, from, you know, particularly from the rest of the organization? Okay, and last but not least, technology, right? And I purposely put this at the end. Yep, so firstly, because we're talking about the pillars, the three pillars. But for me, and you might think it's surprising given what we do, you know, but actually without the thinking around people and the thinking around processes, tech is not necessarily the defining factor of success, right? Because most of, you know, I'll tell you what is the defining factor of success when it comes to tech is your partner, is that, you know, you can have two different partners implementing the same technology and one will do it incredibly successfully and one will fail. Because it's not about necessarily the tech. It is all about supporting the change that that tech is going to deliver. Which is why, firstly, I spend so much time learning about all of these things I'm talking to you about now and why I talk to my team and why I pick the people I do. But I am genuinely... passionate about the fact that a consultant is not just somebody that is very good at tech, right? In fact, I know some incredibly talented technical people that I would not put on site as a consultant, because a consultant needs to have lots of different skills. And part of those skills are actually helping with some things that we talked about today, which is the people, the motivation, the guidance, being able to challenge effectively, be able to communicate effectively, be able to negotiate and try and figure out why change isn't happening. So technology is not the skillset you want in your consultant yeah they need to have it don't get me wrong they need to be good at it but it is not the only factor right and the same goes for technology is technology is not one of the defining facts it's well i say technology is not defining factor you can have the best processes in the world the best people but let's be honest if your tech is 10 years old you're never going to be able to reach your peak financial transformation yep so Your technology is a big part of what you're going to do, but you need to supplement it with all of the things I've talked about today. And the biggest thing that I say is use technology as a driver for change. Don't just use it as a reason for change. And it's not the only piece of change, but use it as a driver. And one of the biggest things I say with technology is use it to... to really think and take it as an opportunity to reimagine, right? So we talked about that in processes, but I see it so often where people come in when they're looking for a piece of technology and go, it needs to work this way. And then when I get to this screen, I need it to do this, yeah? Try not to be so prescriptive. Try not to be prescriptive with your technology partner because if they're good, right? They will have done this, you know, time and time again. They will know that how the system is designed and they will help you reimagine these processes, this way of working, yeah? And you need to take that on board when you're picking a technology and a partner is that that person is your guide, yeah? So you need to take them on board, you need to work with them, yeah? And really think about what is critical for you and your organisation. So what is it that you need? The other thing I would say with technology, and this is something people forget, is that they don't think about how flexible their systems are going to be in five to 10 years. And I have this a lot. So one of the things I am really passionate about is not bespoking software. Tailoring, yes, 100%. Adjusting, yes. Customizing, yes. Bespoking, no. Because the problem with bespoke... is that very often it is it has been created it that piece of bespoke is being created because someone because the process is badly defined right or a um a process earlier on in in a conversation is is is the has not been correctly identified. So the why behind that process hasn't been identified and hasn't been fixed. So you're basically using bespoke development as a way of covering up the problem in the process. And very often, you've got to remember that these systems are used by hundreds of thousands of businesses. So when you get to the point where you need to ask for bespoke, you need to ask yourself why. And this is, again, where the relationship between you, your partner, and the software vendor, you need to understand if there is a way that you should be working differently within the software to not need that bespoke. And if that bespoke piece is a piece that is unique to you and is part of your USB as a business, those developers should understand. And you should have a team to manage that moving forwards. Yeah, it should not necessarily be a bespoke piece of technology because very often bespoke tends to mean. that it needs to be upgraded or it needs maintenance. And it may at some point stop you using some of the capabilities of the system. So I'm going to get off my soapbox now. So for anyone that knows me really well, this is one of the things I am... When it comes to technology strategies, I always challenge on this. Now, there's been a couple of occasions where I've said, okay, I understand that, but they are very few and far between. And actually... You can get a lot more out of technology with just integrations or modules that are already pre-existing, which will be supported through upgrades. And a lot of systems have inbuilt customization. There are ways to deliver the same result without necessarily having to go down to a development route. Your software partner may love you to do Perspective because it ties you into them because they're the ones that know how it's been set up. They've built it. They own the code. But actually, for me, it's not a good technology strategy. So when it comes to that third pillar, again, I will stop lecturing because this, again, is about you learning. But actually, take a step back. when it comes don't bespoke it it's my first thing is and if you if you are going down the bespoke route you really need to challenge both yourself and your partner that you're working with as to why you need bespoke right the second piece is um use technology in the way it's been designed to be used to use it as an opportunity to really rethink yeah now you might decide actually no this is how we have to work for various reasons but Do you use it as an opportunity to think big, to think blue sky and think forwards? And thirdly, future-proof what you are doing. Don't get yourself coded into a corner. And I'm not just talking about bespoke, but choose a system that is going to be flexible, that as you change, you can change. redefine how you report, for instance. A classic example is transfer accounts. So very often, somebody will set up an original system and then five years down the track, someone else will come in and go out, oh, the business will change. Think about how much change has happened during coronavirus. So that businesses have completely transformed. They've opened new business streams. They have reimagined their products, their services to work in a virtual world. I bet you a lot of them having to change their reporting structures to support that. And so rather than looking at whether they're selling via a shop, via a wholesaler or distributor, they're now looking at e-commerce. Are they looking at subscription services? What are they doing? When you are building out your technology and when you're looking for technology, make sure it is future-proof. Make sure it's flexible enough to cope with not only what you're going to need now, the next three years, but the next 20 years. Because the world is changing so quickly and the pace of change is coming so quickly that as a finance team, if you want to get into that transformational, automated, looking out of the window screen rather than a rearview mirror, then you need to think big. Right, so that's it. So that's certainly my summary for today because I think I have gone way over time. But I want you to... think big, right? So think about your people. I want you to think about your process, think about your technology, and just see how when you get all of those three elements into harmony, how impactful the change could be. And for those of you that were listening to my podcast with Patrick, you will know that both he and I are massive fan of Venn diagrams. So if you are a Venn diagram fan, imagine you have those three circles. You have people, you have processes, and you have technology. And the bit at which you You really accelerate changes that middle of that Venn diagram where all those three align. Yeah, so you will achieve some success with each one. But when you put those three together, you have an absolute recipe for success. And that's where you need to be. So I think if you can get all of those three elements working together and at the right stages, at the same stages, then you are going to be able to transform your finance team. So... Thank you so much for listening. I hope it was useful. I hope you found it interesting. And I talked about a lot of reading in here. I'm going to point out, I'll put some links to some of the big ones in the show notes. If you do want to learn more about some of the theories and the research that I talked about today, then please do jump on. And if you enjoyed this and you want to hear more in more detail about financial transformation as a concept, about how to deliver on some of these three pillars. I'd love to talk to you guys more about it. It's an area that I'm incredibly passionate about, you can tell. Then please do message me on LinkedIn. Please do email me the podcast. So podcast.itassolutions.co.uk or send us a message through the itassolutions.co.uk chat. We'd love to, genuinely, I'd love to hear from you. Probably best way is LinkedIn. So send me a DM. Do connect. Do say hello. And if you have topics or anything that you would like to learn more about or you think we should be talking about on this podcast, let me know. It's been going, we've had some incredibly interesting guests. You know, I've got some great listeners great ones lined up for you. So thank you so much for listening. Have a fabulous week and I'll speak to you next time.