266. CFO 4.0 Revisited: How technology can enable hybrid working for finance teams with Paul Lee

For this CFO 4.0 Revisited episode, Hannah Munro is joined by Paul Lee, Partner at Deloitte UK, to explore one of the most debated shifts in modern working life – the move to hybrid.

Drawing on his experience at Deloitte, Paul challenges the idea that there is a single “right” answer. Instead, he highlights the importance of asking better questions – around productivity, collaboration, employee expectations, and long-term business impact.

What’s covered in this episode

• Working from home, hybrid, and returning to the office – how to assess the right approach
• Key questions finance leaders should be asking about hybrid working models
• The role of technology in enabling the future of work
• How developments like 5G and WiFi 6 could reshape how and where we work

Links referenced in this episode

• Paul's LinkedIn
• Raise your game with Sage Intacct
• First 90 Days as a CFO: Ultimate Blueprint (FREE download)
• Sign up for our CFO Briefing and Podcast newsletters

• Explore other CFO 4.0 Podcast episodes here.
• Subscribe to our Podcast!

Transcript

Welcome To CFO 4.0\n

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to CFO 4.0, the future of finance. The CFO role is changing rapidly, moving from cost controller to strategic visionary. And with every change comes opportunity. We are here to help you take advantage of this transition, to win at work, drive your career forward, and lead with confidence. Join Hannah Monroe, Managing Director of iTAS, a financial transformation consultancy, as she interviews key experts to give you real-world advice and guidance on how to transform your processes, people and data. Welcome to CFO 4.0, the future of finance.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of CFO 4.0. With me today is Paul Lee from Deloitte. He is the global head of tech, media and telecom. So welcome, Paul. Lovely to have you on the show.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

It's great to be here. Thank you for having me.

Paul’s Career Path In Tech\n

SPEAKER_02 1:05

So, well, firstly, um, it's obviously tech um and you know, spend on meet communication and devices is a big topic for the CFOs generally, especially in this world of hybrid working. But before we get into sort of the depths of the research, tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you um end up at Deloitte? What was your journey?

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Sure. Uh the first thing to mention is I never planned to be here. Um, and I have to confess I've only ever written one application letter uh during my career, which was uh when I was uh 18. And I applied for a um pre-university role um at a big, big uh tech company, um, which at that time was one of the largest um in the world. And I wrote two sheets of A4 handwritten saying this is why I want the job, and uh I got it. And everything after that um has largely been uh fortuitous, or it's been in response to uh a phone call or a conversation. So I've been at Deloitte for 20 years, um, and I've always had this role of looking at what's happening within the tech and telecom space with media added um to it. And the reason why I took this role was because I've always been very interested in technology. Um, and every role that I've had has enabled me to understand it more. And the role at Deloitte was basically um to understand what's happening in the industry and to talk to clients about it. So there's no requirement to um manage specific projects or specific accounts. Um, in a typical non-COVID year, I would meet with about a hundred different clients in about 20 countries around the world and share with them how I see the market changing and also get from them their views on what they see happening in the market. And technology has become far more interesting and also complex over the last 20 years. Um, and so the need to be able to meet with people and talk to them about what they're seeing is really important. Um, but you know, essentially I've kind of stumbled into uh what I'm doing, um, but also I've guided uh obviously um sort of direction that I I've got in as well.

The Hybrid Work Problem\n

SPEAKER_02 3:25

Yeah, I think some of the most interesting jobs are the ones that you don't get given when you leave school. Um I don't think half of the most interesting jobs aren't even on the jobs or careers list for most people, to be very fair. So so you mentioned obviously COVID, and that I I would assume is having a massive impact on the the sector in which you work. So tell us a little bit what trends and patterns have you are you seeing, or what conversations are you having at the moment with regards to those?

SPEAKER_03 3:55

I think one of the biggest themes at the moment is how are we going to work? Um, and that's particularly the case for office workers. I think we often overlook the fact that most people don't have the option to work at home. Um, and so there was a time at the peak of COVID when close to half the population um wasn't able to work. Um, and of those, a proportion were able to work at home, nope, such as people in my profession able to work remotely. Um, but one of the big questions is around so when everyone's at home, um, it was kind of a level playing field. Now what we're moving back to is a mixture of people going back to the office and people um working from home. And that creates um a variation in uh the environments in which we work. And you know, there are many different personality types. So there are some people who will work better when they're working alone. And some of my colleagues who work, for example, in coding or in building apps, um, being able to do that um without distractions is absolutely great. Um, but for other roles, you really benefit from being able to talk to other people. And you know, when we think of um being able to work online, um, we can definitely work online. And um it's great that technology enables us to do that. But when you've got some people in the same physical space, they will communicate in a different way with each other to how those who are online are. And I really noticed that um, you know, particularly in the last couple of meets, where we've been starting to go um back and meeting in person. And meeting one-on-one in person is great, but meeting one to many in person is something you just cannot replicate online. So it's like you know, networking is something that we've always done. And gathering, let's say, 50 people into one room and allow them to mingle and to talk for a minute or 30 and to give out business cards, you know, it sounds quite old-fashioned, but it actually works, is a really powerful thing. So I think this is going to be one of the big challenges that's gonna come up because if you really want to be able to enable people working at home to have the same conditions as those in a physical environment, you need to have much bigger screens, much better microphones, much better lighting. And that's expensive.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Yes, and I think that's the challenge. How do we how do we work in a world where working from home doesn't disadvantage those workers that choose to do that? Um and and what options are there? What what is the the re is there any solutions to those problems at this stage, or is it still in the this isn't a challenge that we need to fix stage?

SPEAKER_03 6:55

I think being realistic, um, we're currently learning what's going to work. Um and you know, even let's say in an office environment um where you've got provision to have people who are not there to join um, let's say, a group presentation, you've got 20 people in the room, 20 people outside the room. It's just like the human instincts of reflexes that we have. If you're in the room, you'll talk to the people in the room because they're giving you the feedback. And so the one thing about um living a life within a rectangle on a laptop screen, um, is that you communicate with your mouth. Mostly what you're doing is it's a phone call with video. Um, and it's not the case that it's a video call, which also has sound. And there's a very important distinction to that. So people tend to listen to you as opposed to watch you because there's only a bit of you to see. When you've got a meeting in person, you're looking at everything. You're looking at the attire, the posture, um, you've got lots of um small visual cues, you know, like a frown or a furrowed brow. All of those are important. All of them are forms of communication, which get lost when you've got like the filter of going via sort of uh a video call. Uh to me, my perception is that it muffles. The way in which you address that is you replicate um being in the physical space. So that means really big screens, not 13-inch laptops laptop screens. It's not the same. Um, but that is expensive. You know, and I know of some people who've got very large screens at home, but they tend to have the space to be able to do it and the funding to be able to do it. And that's not for everyone. So that's one big question is what is the cost of providing a fully hybrid work environment? And one of the things to add in there is just how do you deliver perfect connectivity? And um, in some markets, what you've got is um separate packages for people who are working at home. So you kind of um ring fence the connectivity for the people who are working versus those who are on Fortnite or on YouTube. But there are very few companies um which are doing that. Technologically, that's quite easy to solve. It's really easy to solve. Um, so the audio is easy to solve in that regard, it'll all do connectivity. But the video is really, really hard to solve.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

Yes, and certainly I guess it also depends where in the country they are, because there is a degree of change, isn't there? Depending where you are in the country, access to good broadband and decent connection speeds can be a real challenge. So, so what sort of options do we have around addressing that? Are there any new technologies coming through that can maybe change that for those in more remote areas?

Video Calls Lose Human Signals\n

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Yeah. So, in terms of those in very remote areas, it's about 5% of the UK, which would have um sort of what you could call like low-quality broadband. Um and so um one of the challenges for people um who don't have the best broadband is often um income related. So when we look at all the people, so in the UK, about 94% of households have got a broadband connection, and 70% of them are what's called super fast, there's 30 megabits per second or more. So they can sustain um easily a call like this. Um but you've got fluctuations uh in the performance. Um for other people, what tends to be the challenge is the affordability of those um of the better connectivity. Also, what's coming through is um so 4G, which is um about 10 years old, but it hasn't reached the entire country, is being rolled out more and more. And that is good enough for a call like this. So those technologies are rolling out. Um fiber uh is also being rolled out um to more and more homes, and that can deliver effectively any speed you wanted to. So if you wanted to be able to have um screens which were six foot tall and 12 foot wide, um then a fiber connection would be able to deliver that. Um just even um, probably half the homes could actually have that kind of um connection uh right now. So the average download speeds in the UK are about 80 megabits per second. So so that's all that's all fine. Um and then you know there's also new technologies coming in like 5G, um, but currently that's really focused on the busiest areas because for consumers and also for office workers, you don't really need to have 5G. The speeds are in excess of what's required. So 5G is more about providing solutions into industry where you might need a few hundred megabits per second as a connection and have that utterly reliable and um unlikely to be interrupted.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

So it sounds like um in terms of connectivity, the UK is actually quite well geared up to allow it if if um you know, apart from that 30% that don't quite have the required speeds. Um and you talk about screens. So are you envisaging a world where actually remote workers will have, like you say, six-foot screens at home so that they can participate standing up perhaps in a network meeting? Is is that where the technology could potentially go?

Broadband Reality And Affordability\n

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Um in terms of screen size, so one of the things which happens with the technology is that with every year things get cheaper. Or put another way, um, for the same spend, you can get more and more. Um, and you know, you see that with the cadence of um, let's say, smartphone releases. Um, you know, every year you get um sort of a more powerful chip. So that's more transistors. So currently 16 billion um in a single chip. And so with um TV screens, um, every year for the same spend, you get a big screen, you get high resolution. So we are moving to steadily dedicating entire walls to screens. Now that always sounds preposterous because people go, but what about my books and what about my ornaments? And the reality is because we spend so much time using TVs, and because the input is getting better and better in terms of the calibre of content that's been created for TV, televisions will spread, they'll get larger, the bookshelves will get um knocked away, and the books will get sent to, I don't know, the attic or the basement or whatever. Um because that's what's been happening for the last decade, always to a cause of disapproval from uh book readers or people who watch um TV. So one of the ways in which you do get that ability to do hybrid working is to have those very large um screens. And I think currently for um about 500 pounds, you can buy a 65-inch screen. That's not six foot tall, um, but that's about four foot high. Um and at the diagonal, it's sort of bigger than me. Uh, I'm not that tall either. Um, but it it gives you an idea of what we're what we're going, what we're getting to um in terms of uh screens. And the um the colour saturation, um the the degree of light that can be replicated on the screen get just gets better and better um all the time.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Fantastic. So that that's quite uh an interesting trend. And as you say, you know, as you think about it, yes, my TV has gone bigger every couple of years, to be very fair. So um, and yeah, you know, I I um I still remember my first computer monitor, which was um about this deep. And uh yeah, we we won't I won't try to age myself by telling you uh where, you know, I think my first laptop was black and white, to be very fair. We didn't even have colour in those days. So that's um a little bit scary. So moving on um from uh from the history, I guess. So what other trends and patterns are gonna are you seeing? Is there anything else that you're seeing that could help support that hybrid working environment? And what do you you know, what do C what do CFOs, what do employers need to think about and how they support their employees with that?

Bigger Screens And Home Setups\n

Leadership Choices For Hybrid Teams\n

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Yeah. Um so one of the things which is really important, uh not just for CFOs, but uh I think for all management, is um to recognise the variety or the heterogeneity of different types of uh of worker. And you know, prior to COVID, certainly, you know, those who are working at home were always regarded with a bit of disdain. Um so it's a bit like somebody leaving at say 5 p.m. uh would often get the comment, uh, are you sort of heading off early, are we? Um, or someone working at home on a Friday, uh, you know, common comment would be, are you expecting deliveries? Are you heading off for a long weekend? And you know, the reality is some people just work better at home. So that's one thing that we need to recognise. The second thing is um types of work really vary. The third um element is um in-person communication for a lot of people is something that is really important, and there is no technology that can replicate it. Like networking, there is no technology that can replicate it. You know, that's just where we are at the moment. And you know, I've tried things like say um using avatars um within virtual environments, um, and it's amusing, but it's nothing like the immediacy of human communication because we've spent, you know, in our lives, working lives for might be years, often decades, honing our ability to network, to meet people, to find out things, to convince people. Um, and it doesn't work online, and it's just where we are. Um, and so there are some things that you just can't replicate. So being pragmatic about what's possible, I think, is really important. And then there is another element which is fascinating, contentious, controversial, which is how do you keep workplaces uh safe? Right. So the challenge is you want people to go back into the office, you want them to be productive, you don't want them to get infected with COVID. And the reality is we will probably be coexisting with coronaviruses for some time to come. So it's not that we're going back to the end of um 2019. We are still in that phase. And when I look at um different markets, so um in the US, I think by the end of August, about 20% of corporates were looking to require proof of antibodies, so vaccines or having had COVID, to enter a place of work. And I read in one survey, which was run at the end of August, by the end of the year, um, 50% of employers in the US were expecting to mandate that. Um and also going to places like, say, hospitality. So I was looking at um one app, um Yelp, which um is also available in the UK. So if you look at Yelp um in the filters, you can require that um so you can filter for restaurants where you have to show COVID status, and secondly, where all the staff have had two jabs. In London, I couldn't find any. San Francisco, hundreds, right? Wow. So at what point does that come through? So one of the things for um CFOs and others to consider is what are the COVID protocols that will be required and what are the technologies which will enable it? How do you create in a secure way a database of information that's up to date about COVID status? And I've heard from lots of people um infuriated that have gone into a workplace and unwittingly expose themselves to somebody who's later said that they're infectious because they hadn't tested. So, how do you maintain um a safe working environment? I think that's one of the biggest challenges which is out there, because the whole issue of being vaccinated is also political, it's emotional, it's challenging. Um, understanding how vaccines work is not something that people have to learn to enter a workplace. Um, and it's in many regards really counterintuitive, the idea that you inject a small amount of a disease into you to create um the uh a reaction in your body to create the defenses against it. You have to have understanding inside to understand it. Um, and that's something which I think is very important is to be able to explain to people who just don't have the scientific background to understand why vaccines were important.

Workplace Safety And Covid Protocols\n

SPEAKER_02 20:46

And also, I guess the the the the tracking of that status and the enforcing of that is a it can be a real challenge. And I think that's that's one of the areas I think um businesses are concerned and looking at. And it sounds like the US is a little bit ahead of the UK in that, to be very fair. So, talking of differences between the UK and you know the rest of the world, so we talked very much about the connectivity within the UK. How does that work across the pond? How is um how are other countries um set up for remote working? Is there anything that you know that they are doing better or is the UK ahead of the game in that aspect when it comes to infrastructure?

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Um so so at one level, um, so the UK is behind lots of the rest of Europe um in terms of fiber connections. Um but the thing about a fiber connection is it gives you whatever speed you want. Um, and you don't need whatever speed you want. So um the UK has used an approach um in the last 10 years, so which is called Fibre to the Cabinet, which is whereby you bring fiber closer to A premise. And then the last bit is done over copper. So it's like a booster. And then even though copper slows it down, it's still plenty, you know, it's still fast enough for most applications. And that's one reason why, you know, in terms of like resilience for doing calls like this, then the UK's infrastructure is absolutely fine. I mean, to be honest, when you look at uh it's like a lot of the video calling apps, um they require about three megabits per second. And if you're able to watch um Netflix or Amazon Prime, you've got you're using a faster speed for that. So um video calling is not the most demanding um of applications, it's less tolerant of interruption, i.e., when you um lose signal for for a bit because you have to get back in again. Um but it's it's not it's it's not the the the hardest. I mean in terms of um what happens in other countries, um what I'm aware of is most countries are using quite similar software. Um and their big question is um around, so you know, we we've had 18 months of using great platforms. Um what is the next thing that they should do? Should they double up on all the homeworking software, or do they redirect investment into offices which already have invested in already? And in many cases, you won't want to do both. You've got to um make a choice as to where you allocate um your capital. And I think that's one of the big decisions to come.

SPEAKER_02 23:44

And have you, when you've speaking to people, is there have you has there been any noticeable trends about where people are investing and more conversations about how do we gear people up for hybrids? So the ability to do both or gearing to focus people back in the office. Has there been any um interesting trends around that at all?

UK Versus Global Connectivity\n

SPEAKER_03 24:03

Um, I think it's quite it's a little bit too early um to determine because we're still in this phase where we don't know what's going to happen in a month's time. So it's not as bad as not knowing what's gonna happen next week, which is how it's felt at certain times of the year. But it's still it's still uncertain. Um so bigger trends which are coming through are around um deploying new technologies, so like Wi-Fi 6, which is the next version of Wi-Fi, um, and also 5G into environments where wireless computer GPG didn't work before because the standards weren't up to it. So this would be, for example, in Germany, um there are um now hundreds of manufacturing companies which are sort of effectively mini 5G operators. So they have a license to run a 5G network on their campus, so on their manufacturing sites, and they're using that to automate um processes or to generate more information from their existing processes. So that's part of the move to um say industry 4.0 um or the reinvention of manufacturing, is by having uh much better connectivity and better because it's wireless, so I'm tethered and I'm constrained as opposed to wired, which um makes an environment more inflexible.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

And you mentioned Wi-Fi 6. How does Wi-Fi 6 differ from the existing Wi-Fi that's available?

Capital Spend Choices For CFOs\n

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Yeah, and Wi-Fi's nomenclature is really weird because it goes from like A to B to E to and it's sort of like and now it's going to uh six, and there wasn't a Wi-Fi 5, um, as far as I'm aware. Um but Wi-Fi 6, but basically what happens over time is um speeds get faster um over wireless connections. Um, the latency, the speed at which um the network reacts, gets shorter. So decisions um can be communicated um a lot faster, and the number of connections you can have in a certain area um become a lot greater. So, what that means is that you can start getting information from anything up to the limit of one million objects per square kilometer. So if you imagine uh, let's say in a factory, um, every single tool can be connected and you can generate information um on its status. So if it needs a repair or if it's starting to overheat, that can be communicated back somewhere centrally so that the machine can be taken out of use before um it explodes, um, but can be taken out of use and then maintained and fixed. So um at the moment that doesn't really happen because you don't have that ability to connect everything. But that's one thing that Wi-Fi 6 and um 5G uh enables is just a lot more connections. And if you applied it, let's say, to um every wagon of a train or um every rivet on a on a bridge, then you start collecting um a lot more data and you can do a lot more preventative maintenance as opposed to fixing things which have broken because you weren't aware or because it was too hard to gather that information.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

So it's basically extending the number of connections that are available within a given a given area, um, as well as obviously accommodating the additional speeds that we're starting to get. That's exciting, I guess, from a warehousing perspective, that you know, for those you know, carrying on that theme of manufacturers and um and managing warehouses and you know, all of that technology that's now coming through, that offers some really exciting opportunities.

Wi-Fi 6 And Private 5G Networks\n

SPEAKER_03 27:50

Yeah, and one of the things which is going to become possible, um, for example, with 5G is the ability to have a lot more um automated vehicles um so um within the factories. So um because of the ability to know where different objects are or different machines are, so you can um uh enable them to get from A to B and for them to work out a route from uh for them to get to A to B, um, but also for a controller to know where each of those is at any point in time, so you can get indoor navigation accuracy down to about 10 centimetres. Um and um so in lots of warehouses, currently what you have is like a track on the floor and uh the machines follow that. Um, but with 5G, then the machines can become a lot more autonomous. So what that means is that you can have, you know, for example, in a car um manufactory, you can have um parts being brought to a car which is being built um via an automated um trolley as opposed to have somebody push it, which is what you have in lots of legacy factories. So it enables more and more automation. And to your point, you know, around warehouses, and one of the major costs is going to be labor, um, sort of uh automating um a lot of those processes um can be a lot more cost effective. It's not always, um, but it's it's often uh more cost effective.

Hybrid Work Returns With Devices\n

SPEAKER_02 29:14

That's exciting. And I guess there's a there's a whole podcast to be done just on manufacturing and manufacturing 4.0, to be very fair. That's a it's it's it's a personal interest of mine, so I won't bore you with all my questions, but that's uh that's a fascinating piece. So so coming back to our topic initially of hybrid working, one of the questions we we didn't dig into is actually personal devices, because that, you know, it's an interesting trend, and we're having lots, I can say we're having conversations internally about how we how we manage that, you know, as we swap from home to to work, and how with the increase in obviously cybersecurity requirements that come with um with with remote working. What sort of are there any trends that you're seeing around how that is being handled by businesses, or is there any technology coming through to change the way that we're using devices and what are the patterns we're seeing?

Automation In Factories And Warehouses\n

SPEAKER_03 30:10

Yeah, so one of the um homeworking inspired trends uh that's come through is uh better webcams. Um and you know, for a long time, like a laptop um was designed to be able to work anywhere. And if you were to um have interactions, it would often be face-to-face. So um, and the great thing about the laptop would give you the flexibility to touch down it every now and then. And so they would have rather say flaccid or weak uh webcams as a result because there was no point in differentiating the webcam because people didn't use them. But now they're becoming um a lot better. So the um the calibre of those cameras is getting a lot greater. So that's one enabler um for working at home uh more readily. Um, but it's just a small one. And you know, enterprises aren't going to upgrade an entire laptop just for a webcam. Um, it's more something that will come through unless your work requires you to have a very, very good um webcam and you buy it um uh externally. So other things which I think will come through are you know there is better and better um removal of clutter from the audio signal. So uh, you know, I think a lot of us have worked at home and just found that you know the people opposite are building sort of like a two-story uh basement for the next year. Um, and um, the ability to suppress all that extraneous noise is getting very, very good. Um, and so one thing people might find is that you know, even though they can hear the noise of drilling, the people that they're talking to can't. So the algorithms for detecting what is a human voice and deleting everything else are getting better and better. So that's also known as uh noise cancellation, but it it's just identifying um what what the voice is um for that. And um, I also think that um so one of the things which is becoming better is you know, so um, you know, when we speak in in in person, we're used to like standing and moving around. And um what's getting better in some of the technology out there is the ability for the camera to track where you are or the cameras to track where you are. Um and so there's lots of new tablets which you may use or even smartphones, where if you move around, um you'll get tracked. I won't move around now because I'll go out of frame. Um but with some of the other devices that I'm using, so I'm gonna move around, then the camera follows. And it just feels a bit more natural uh for some. And it could also be irritating at times if you move around too much. Um, but the ability to um track and zoom in, I think is getting a lot better as well.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

I think one of the challenges certainly that we've uh that I've noticed on um team um on using like Teams and Zoom, etc., is the the ability to have a conversation with somebody and look at the camera. So that that's an interesting piece. Is there any technology coming through that can you know help with the the eye contact, you know, one of those ta key tenets of um communication?

Better Webcams And Noise Cancellation\n

SPEAKER_03 33:25

Yes. Um so there are algorithms which have been around for some time, which you know, for example, if you're looking away, um it can uh change your eyes. So it looks as if you're looking at the person.

SPEAKER_02 33:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Um and um so when some of these were introduced, it was regarded as creepy. Um but now um I just think it's it just makes life easier. Um and the reality is we have always applied makeup, men less so, but with um um technology, um, that's what you can do. Um so filters enable you to change your appearance. Um, I've got no so on some of the uh apps, um, you've got like, for example, the ability to remove lines from your face. And then sometimes I'll move to another app where that doesn't have that, and I'll be shocked at what I'm looking into. Sort of like an authentic mirror as opposed to one which is like a magic mirror and lies to me and tells me lies I want to hear. So um all of those things are coming through. I mean, um basically, I think that's all positive because what you want is good communication, and if technology can sort of um delete your errors, then that that that that's a good thing. I think it's a positive.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Yes, it will, because certainly I think we're all used to that Instagram world where everything is filtered and looks lovely. And yes, like you say, you you dial onto a work meeting and yeah, things aren't quite as lovely as they are if you took it as a photo and edited it. So that's a really interesting trend, and it'll be um it'll be fascinating to see how well that's received in terms of meetings, etc. Um, you know, and uh how that goes. Any other thoughts in terms of you know, other trends that you're you you're seeing or you're noticing or think will come through in terms of remote working or that sort of that online meeting environment?

Eye Contact Tech And Filters\n

SPEAKER_03 35:29

Um I think we've talked about most of the big ones. So it's you know, bigger screens, better cameras, um better software. Um, I have to say, in the last few months, I haven't seen anything remarkable appear. So most of it is duplicative out there. And I think it's linked to the fact that people are not sure where we're gonna end up. Because it won't be um everyone working at home because there's too much information lost in that space. So if people who've who are used to working already have networks, that's all great. But you know, even things like making a new contact is a lot harder to do online. Um and so because we were in that sort of um kind of like hiatus period where we don't know what's going to happen next. Um, that's why I think like some of these innovations um are on ports. And if you look at, say, uh, some of the biggest, let's say, smartphone vendors, what they differentiate on is um camera quality, which includes stills and also video. And in a world where everyone's moving around, you get to use your technologies a lot. So do you um build for that model and assume that people are going to move around a lot because we've got lots of vaccines out there and we've got more free movement, or do you optimize for people working at home and doing um sort of more calls um in a zoom type format? But one thing I noticed is the um so one of the big lockdown successes was a company called um or an app called Um House Party. And that was retired a week ago. Um and what House Party did was it enabled like lots of um younger people to have calls with about 20 people. So like um a young version of um Zoom, but with loads of people all chatting. So it's like um an update to the sort of party lines that used to exist where you could chat to 20 people at a time, and it was a video chat with 20 people at a time. But but that was um that was retired just a week ago. So it will probably come back in another form, but it's possibly a sign of uh some of the changes um coming through.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

And I and I think that's a really important point. There's a difference, isn't there, between gearing up your team and your technology to work on the move versus working at home. And I I think there is an interesting trend in certain conversations that were happening about where we're going to be working. Are we gonna be working from home? Are we gonna be working abroad, you know, and are we gonna be back in the office? So it'll be interesting, like you say, to see what happens over the next 12 to 18 months. And yeah, and I think once people start making decisions, that's when we're, I guess we'll see some of the the new innovations coming through to support that that particular way of working. Um so for our CFOs and our listeners, so at the moment we are in the midst and living with COVID. So let's let's just finish perhaps on some top tips. How do we enable our teams to work well from home? And so we we talked about it already, but just give us a sort of a quick sum up of the key things that we could look at to support our teams.

Why Remote Networking Still Fails\n

Practical Tips For CFOs\n

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Yeah. So um the first point I'd make is just recognize the heterogeneity of your workforce. That's the first one. And some people will be more productive at home, um, but not everyone. Um, a second thing is, you know, we've gone from mostly working in an office to mostly working at home. And uh to what extent should there be a mix? And if there is a mix, how do you get the right people in the office on the same days? Is there an algorithm for that? Or is it just easier to try and encourage everyone uh to come back? Uh a third point I make is um if we do move to um hybrid working, the environments within the office haven't been designed for that. So um I was doing a talk last week, and there were people in the room and people on Zoom, and I literally couldn't see the people on Zoom because they're on the screen behind me. Um, and you can't look both ways. Um, I can't look both ways. I don't have eyes in the back of my head yet. Uh, and there was no screen in front of me to show the people who are online. So the natural reaction is to react to the people who are reacting in front of you, um, because that's where the that's where the attention is. Um, I think it'd also be very interesting to do a study on um productivity levels um when people are at home. So one thing that you lose um when you um go to the office is commute time. Is commute time bad for you or good for you? Because um what I know some people use a commute for is to think, to stitch ideas together. So the reason why we dream is to rationalise things that have happened during the day and to create those links, those time lapses um between them. And um the sort of you know, every small walk or sort of pause enables us to um understand uh what has just happened or what's just been talking about, talked about, and occasionally react to it. So one thing I would be say is do not regard the commute time as lost time because it is actually very productive, um, in the same way that like daydreaming is very productive because what you can also what you're often doing is stitching things together so the brain never um really rests. And also around productivity. So when you don't commute in, you might save um, let's say, a couple of hours both ways. But um when people some of all for some people, when they're at home and there is no one to monitor them, they're more easily distracted. So it's a bit like you know, giving a kid um an iPad and telling them to do their homework and then shutting the door, what do you think is gonna happen? And you know, we retain that ability to be distracted in many cases. So the key message is to have an open mind and also from a CFO perspective, bear in mind the cost of of each approach. Um, because replicating an office at home times every employee will be a significant cost if you're going to make it truly um equal.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

And and I also I guess adding into that, if you're going for a hybrid model where people could be going both in and out, that that could also then add to the cost in terms of having to have the facilities in two places, maybe not double, but for you know, having the flexibility to manage and have the space for people to work in the office as well.

SPEAKER_03 42:44

Yeah, I'd agree with that.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Yeah, and and I think it's a really interesting point. Um, and certainly as we found the shift back in around the meeting rooms and how you have hybrid meetings and how, like you say, you manage the it takes a lot more management, I think, to make sure that you are uh addressing both the the workers from home and also those that are actually in present because it you're right, it is a natural tendency to focus on those that are in the room with you as much as you, you know, as much as you would like to think you're being fair, sometimes it's not quite the same.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

Yeah, I mean, a reality is, for example, like if you've got 16 people um who are on a sort who are sort of arranged in a in the rectangles, they can't look to each other and smile. They can't eye roll, they can't communicate to each other. Or people in the room can do. Yeah. Right. And it's it you know, sort of it sounds like a cliche, but that nonverbal communication is something that you can't dismiss. It's really important.

Closing Thoughts And Where To Learn\n

SPEAKER_02 43:47

And I think more important for management because what what you can notice is a lot more nonverbal communication happening on chat channels for remote remote workers, rather than necessarily the The more obvious catch that you as a presenter can make. So yes, that's a that's a really interesting thought. So I'm very sorry, Paul. Um, as much I think I could go for another half an hour, but I won't, I promise. Um I want to, you know, it's been a fascinating talk. And those last, you know, these last few tips you shared with us were really incredibly useful. So to all those CFOs out there, you know, I think there's some really interesting insights for, you know, in terms of managing environments. How do we make both, you know, how do we support both remote and office-based workers and those that want everywhere, you know, every um different type in between, whilst, you know, ensuring productivity and inclusivity as well. I think there's some really interesting pieces of thoughts. So thank you again, Paul. Um, I really appreciate you coming on the show. And obviously, if anyone wants to learn more about yourself, about the research that you're doing, where's the best place to go or find out more?

SPEAKER_03 44:57

Um, you can find me and our research uh on the web. So uh delight.co.uk is one destination. But if you just do a search on um any search engine that you prefer, you should be able to find what we write about.

iTAS Customer Testimonial

SPEAKER_02 45:12

Wonderful. Well, thanks again, Paul. Um, lovely to have you onto the show. And uh thanks everyone again for listening. And any questions that come out of this, we'd love to hear your thoughts. Any other recommendations for topics, always great to hear hear what you'd like to hear about next. So thanks again, Paul, and to our audience, we'll see you soon. So I always find it really hard to explain to people why they should choose iTAS as their financial transformation or stage partner. So rather than me tell you how awesome we are, I'm gonna let our customers do it.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

So we decided to go with iTAS because when we were looking for a partner, we felt that they not only took the time to understand our business and they knew the needs of everyone on the team or everyone that would be using the system, but they also were very transparent in kind of what they could do, what they couldn't do. And prior to having us, you know, sign anything or make any agreements, they held meetings with us to walk them through our processes and our business so that they really understood everything that would need to be done and give give us realistic timelines as well. And another thing was because we were so new and we didn't have a current system going, um, we were looking for something that we could implement rather quickly, but also do it correctly. And we felt that ITAS would be able to do achieve both of those in terms of yeah, understanding our business and implementing it how we wanted it, but also doing it in our rather quick timeline.