255. PE Backed: How to survive and succeed as a CFO in Private Equity with Omar Choucair

In this episode, Hannah Munro sits down with Omar Choucair, CFO at Trintech, for a forthright look at life inside private equity. Omar offers a clear view of what the role truly demands and why it isn’t for the faint hearted. He discusses the expanded remit of today’s CFO, the operational intensity of PE-backed firms and the importance of pace, people and process when value creation is the end goal.

The conversation covers

•  The sharp contrasts between public company and private equity expectations
• What a PE-ready finance team looks like and why curiosity, stamina and tight-knit business partnerships matter more than ever 
•  How to build trust across the business and move finance from scorekeeper to genuine strategic partner 
• The realities of scaling fast the role of technology, automation and a modern ERP in enabling profitable growth  
• What new and aspiring PE CFOs need to know from managing the CEO relationship to anticipating board demands

Links mentioned

• Omar's Linkedin
• Learn more about Trintech

• Explore other CFO 4.0 Podcast episodes here.
• Subscribe to our Podcast!

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stage For CFO 4.0
• 1:01 Public Vs Private Equity CFO Realities
• 3:39 Building A PE-Ready Finance Team
• 6:40 Balancing Operations, Strategy, And MA
• 10:03 Trust-Based Partnerships Across The ELT
• 12:16 Coaching Finance Into Trusted Advisors
• 15:31 Hybrid Work And Talent Density
• 18:09 Automation, AI, And The Tech Stack
• 21:11 Storytelling, Hold Periods, And Leadership Turnover
• 23:57 Speed, Scale, And Common PE Pitfalls
• 26:18 Beyond Email: Real AI Use In Finance
• 29:07 Planning For Profitable Growth
• 31:36 MA Playbook From 40+ Deals
• 34:35 Teams, Vendors, And Day-One Control
• 37:07 Integrate Systems And Keep Key People
• 39:55 Change Management That Actually Lands
• 42:10 Valuations, Diligence, And Customer Truth

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:00

Welcome to CFO 4.0, the future of finance. The CFO role is changing rapidly, moving from cost controller to strategic visionary. And with every change comes opportunity. We are here to help you take advantage of this transition to win at work, drive your career forward, and lead with confidence. Join Hannah Monroe, Managing Director of ITES, a financial transformation consultancy, as she interviews key experts to give you real-world advice and guidance on how to transform your processes, people, and data. Welcome to CFO 4.0, the future of finance.

SPEAKER_04: 0:48

So hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of CFO for Burto. Now I'm really excited to introduce a partner that we work with, uh Trintech, and their CFO, Omar Schuka. So we're here to talk about um not software, actually, but his experience working across mergers and acquisitions, MA, and also in the world of private equity. So thank you so much, Omar, for joining me today. It's lovely to have you on.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17

Thank you. Uh glad to be here.

SPEAKER_04: 1:19

So um so tell us a little bit about, I guess, your experience, because from what I understand, you've got over 10 years experience uh working with private equity. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:29

Yes. Yes. So I have uh I've uh spent about 10, 11 years uh with private equity. Before that, I spent like 15 to 20 years in a public company. So I have a I guess a unique perspective in terms of the the the differences and the the good and the bad of working for public companies versus private companies. So uh there's really there's really no good or bad. It's just it's just different.

SPEAKER_04: 1:54

So let's talk through some of those differences. I guess were there any differences that surprised you as such?

SPEAKER_01: 2:02

I don't know if anything surprised me. I think uh what I've always told folks is that as a public company CFO, there are two or three metrics that you can never miss, right? And it's like revenue growth and EPS and no surprises. And I think with uh with public companies, that can be devastating, right? And you can just look around and see uh companies that could have a great have a great earnings report, but then their guidance falls short of expectations in the sockets, you know, cran, you know, cream, you know, 15, 10, 15%. With private companies, it's different. With private companies, it's more storytelling and it's more relationships, you know, with the executive team and then also with the board. And uh what I like to tell people is with uh private equity, you really have to be on your toes and it's across a swath of metrics, right? So, like I said, in public companies, there's like three metrics, you know, with uh private companies, there could be 20 or 30 metrics. And all 20 or 30 metrics have to be monitored, analyzed, and have a story behind each metric. And so it just requires a little different, uh, a different, a different team, if you will, that you have to have a different team on a private equity side, and it just requires uh a little more um analysis of all the operational numbers. And I think that would be another point, would be operation, heavy operational with private equity, not that operational focused with uh public companies.

SPEAKER_04: 3:40

And let's talk. That was an interesting comment you made there about the team structure within private equity. When you're going into a new private equity organization and you're looking whether that team is fit for purpose, what are some of the things that you consider?

SPEAKER_01: 3:53

Yeah, it's a it's a great question. And it's uh it's really more their appetite for engagement. I mean, they're they have to have a very curious personality. And in private equity, you you have to ask a lot of questions and you have to be prepared to spend the time to analyze all the answers you get back from your questions, right? And so I think that's the one thing that I've really focused on is that the uh the office of the CFO and the the CFO has just expanded in terms of responsibility, really, especially after COVID. And and everybody remembers, you know, the COVID, the the COVID time, and and that's when the world kind of came to stop spinning, right? And a lot of folks just pounded on the CFO with respect to debt covenants and cash flow and revenue and HR issues, and it it is it's only extended since then over the last five or six years. So, but back to your question, you have to have a very curious curious team that reports. And I think the other piece would be always tell folks there's two lieutenants, right? There's a a controller that's your you know your left hand, and your FPNA uh VP is your is your right hand. And they're both critically, critically important to the success of the company and to the CFO.

SPEAKER_04: 5:20

Yeah, and it's really interesting here. You talk about that balance, I guess, between obviously delivering accurate and um accurate numbers and getting into the the the technical accounting versus that sort of expansion piece and that that forecasting and planning. Um and and I guess that's an interesting piece, isn't it? You said that PE was very operational, but I guess with your role as a CFO, you also need to have an eye on the commercial and the strategy as well. So how do you find the balance between that in private equity specifically when you're being asked for lots of numbers and information and actually having the time to to give that insight?

SPEAKER_01: 6:00

Well, it starts with like 12 to 14 hours a day. And I think that's a I think that's I think that's the other that's the other piece, is that it's uh it it's not for everybody. Like being the CFO for private equity is not for everybody. And I think it's a commitment that you have to make, and it's a commitment that you get from your from your team members, right? Because it is it is a tremendous, it's a tremendous amount of work if you want to do it correctly. If you want to do it the right way, it's a tremendous amount of work. So I would say that uh a couple of things. So, yes, there is a standard expectation of what you know the office of the CFO should do in a private equity group, right? And you know, we run a technology software, you know, business. So, you know, we have a lot of folks that are very heavily focused on that. And the relationships that we have with the other ELT, whether it's the chief marketing officer, the chief technology officer, chief product, legal, um, all the revenue, those are just critical relationships to have. And I've asked the lieutenants to really focus on that. And we can only be as good as uh, you know, the relationships that we have, and you have to generate that trust. They have to, they have to feel like they trust you as opposed to it's I got you, right? Like there's always that view that the accounting or the finance team is out to find an issue that, hey, this wasn't done correctly. Well, it's really not that. It's like, yeah, this wasn't done correctly, but this is what we're gonna do to fix it. The separate piece to your issue about strategic is that typically if you're in a private equity group, there's gonna be MA, and that's just a normal course of business. And so you have this layer of uh of controls and people, and then on top of that, you bring in an MA. We did a large MA about a year and a half ago, and uh, you know, it was it was very taxing, but as long as you have your controls in place, then you just have to burst. You have to have burstable speed, and then you have to know who to deal with in terms of accountants and attorneys and business people and due diligence and bankers. And so it just adds a complexity, which I love doing. It's just that it's it's not for everybody.

SPEAKER_04: 8:05

And and there was a f there's loads I want to unpick in there. And I I knew this was going to be a great conversation, Omar. So I guess, you know, when you were talking about finding the balance, you know, changing that relationship between your finance team and those other departments, making sure it's seen as a as a trusted partner versus a spy in the the enemy's camp sort of thing. How do you coach your team through building that relationship? How do you get them into that trusted advisor piece?

SPEAKER_01: 8:32

Well, I think it's it's they have to be uh thoughtful, right? They have to, again, ask a lot of questions, but they don't need to, they need to be careful about how they ask questions. They're really just more open-ended questions, as opposed to why is this number different than what you told me like two weeks ago? It needs to be more open-ended. And and we we we've worked with our team and it it takes time. I mean, yeah, it just doesn't happen overnight. And over time, whether that's a month or two months or three months, what happens is the pendulum swings. And now the uh the operational team is depending on your team, right? That's the best of all worlds, is where they feel like, oh, I need to go check with uh the team to see if this makes sense or not. And it didn't happen overnight, but it happened over time. And I think that's that's something I'm I'm you know very proud of that we have people that they now depend on the team as opposed to looking at them as, hey, we're the we're the scorekeepers. And we are the scorekeepers, but we can do so much more than keep score.

SPEAKER_04: 9:37

I love that. And and so many people listening to this will be trying to replicate that kind of relationship within their team as well. So, have you got any top tips for building out a really good sort of finance business partnering function? Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 9:51

So this might be a little controversial, but I mean our our our uh work is uh hybrid. So I am a big believer in being in the office on a modified basis. And we have three days a week. And maybe I'm old school, but it r I am a much more productive uh, you know, CFO. The fact that I have people that are, you know, 10, 15, 20 feet away. And that's not that's not for everybody. I've I've met I have many, many friends that they don't see each other for months at a time. Not for me. It's just not for me. But it does work for other people, but not for me. And so what we've really focused on three days a week to really get in front of people and meet people and go have a coffee. And um, you know, we live in we live in uh Dallas, and you know, we're fortunate that we have a fantastic talent market, probably one of the top two or three talent markets in the U.S. And so we're fortunate that we have the ability to go find, you know, really, really high-end talent that, you know, that that want to come in three days a week and uh and engage.

SPEAKER_04: 10:57

Yeah, and and I think there is something to be said for in-person helps build relationships, you know, that I don't think anyone can deny that. It's a lot harder. It's not that you can't do it remotely, it's just a lot harder to do. So um I I can completely understand that. And and you you mentioned something earlier, I guess, about the pace and the commitment that working in private equity requires, like the hours, etc. Have you found that the same across all private equity? And have you noticed any sort of international differences as well?

SPEAKER_01: 11:29

Uh I don't know if there's really any differences. I mean, you know, there's there's all there's different tiers of private equity. And, you know, there's top-tier firms and you know, that have, you know, tens of billions of dollars under under management, then there's like mid-tier firms. But I think they all they're all focused on the same thing. They have to, they have to create value. And the only way you can create value is to have a very high performing, functioning team and to automate as much as you possibly can on the tech stack. And I think that's and that kind of brings in, you know, the the AI, you know, the AI lens to everything that we're doing. And uh your your your tech stack has to be automated. And the days of doing pivot tables back and forth everywhere, it's just it's uh, it's it, you can't, you can't scale. The whole key is you have to be able to scale. And uh, you know, our company's grown twofold since I've since I've been here. And the only way you can grow is through technology and scale of your back office. And we're we're in the middle of going through a um a new uh ERP. So we're completely redoing our entire ERP, very expensive and a tremendous load on our people. But the benefit is on the other side, we will have a more efficient system to where we can grow and we can scale faster because of the investment that we've made. But to your question, I don't really think there's a difference between you know the UK and the US, et cetera. I mean, all our folks are very dedicated, hardworking, so it really doesn't matter where you are. Uh I think the overall, the overall um view is pretty much the same. The key is you just have to be able to tell a good story. And I don't mean like a false story. I mean you just have to be able to tell your story. You have to be able to explain what happened in the past and why you think what happened in the past is going to result in something better happening in the future. And that's like a that's a trait and that's a skill that people have to work on. Especially younger, especially younger folks that are, you know, in beginning their career kind of, you know, through the middle of their career.

SPEAKER_04: 13:38

And I guess a lot of that is not just telling the story of the organization, but tying that into the private equities cycle as well. Because obviously there's a there's a cycle to to buy and sell within that. So, you know, how'd do you is that something that you you you keep a close eye on when you're working with the private equities, almost understanding where where you know when they may want to exit and tying that into the story that you're telling?

SPEAKER_01: 14:03

Well, yes. I mean, uh the the hold periods have elongated over the last couple of years just due to the market and the the credit markets, but the credit markets are are coming uh are coming a lot closer to maybe what people expected. And um, and I think if you if you look at a private equity uh investment, typically there are all there are typically changes, right? There's typically changes, and it could be the CEO level, it could be the CFO level. It just almost always happens. Like I would say 50 to 60 percent of the time. And sometimes they don't work out. So then you have to bring in another CEO, you have to bring in another CFO. So that's why I get back to the relationship is is critical. Because as a private equity managing director or partner, the last thing I want to do is have to go find another CFO, or I have to go find another CEO. And that is just a drain. But they will do it because they know they have to find the right person. They they've got to get the right person, he or she sitting in that seat. And so that's why I think you see, you know, turnover quite a bit.

SPEAKER_04: 15:11

Yeah, and private equity is known for being particularly ruthless when it comes to finding that, you know, finding that right person. But I guess when you've got a limited time in your cycle cycle to deliver the value that you need, then that has an impact. What what do you think are the biggest mistakes that those working in private equity in that CFO role make?

SPEAKER_01: 15:32

I I would say a couple things. So one is not moving quickly enough. Right. Like you have to move fast. And I think you move fast and fail quickly and pick up and and move on, right? Because I think what what private equity wants is they want people that have a vision and a change agent. And if you go into a company that the systems are just not good, you have to change out the systems, and then you have to convince the the board that, hey, I need to go spend this money because this is the only way that you're gonna be able to scale this business. It's all about scale. And most of these uh private equity companies, they have value add teams. So there are teams within the private equity that are there only for one purpose, and that is to ensure that these companies scale. And then, you know, back to AI. I mean, the AI is obviously it's a game changer, right? I mean, you can pick up and see that every day thousands of people are getting laid off at these large companies, just thousands. Like it's just over the last, the last 30 to 50, 60 days. It it's it's mind-boggling. And, you know, the view is that yeah, AI is going to make everybody more productive. And my view is it may not be all AI because I think a lot of these companies overhired during COVID and they never reset. So I think this is now under the disguise of AI, they're now getting all their personnel right. Because they just over, they had too many people. And so there's no doubt that, you know, a an employee that knows AI will do will do much better and fare much better than that employee that is not really interested in learning. And that's the one thing I would tell everybody is you just have to make personal time to understand how it can impact your, your, your, your own, yourself. And I don't mean just writing emails. Having AI write an email is like that's child's play. I mean, that that's not really anything. It's like, how do you take AI to make your team better? How does it save time? And I'm not saying anything negative about AI writing emails, but that's just that's such a a minute piece of what it can do.

SPEAKER_04: 17:45

Yeah, and I think it's the bit that everyone's comfortable with, and and I guess that's the challenge right now is getting people to get out of their comfort zone and create space and time to experiment, right? Because you only learn through, you know, testing and reviewing. And it's yeah, people with the knowledge to be able to assess the outputs of those that should be doing the experimentation.

SPEAKER_01: 18:04

Right. And I think we've we said there's there's probably three groups of people. There's the first group that is way ahead of everybody else, and they're leading the charge and they're making huge gains, right? The middle group, they want to change, they're just probably a little scared and they have to be kind of coaxed into learning and don't be afraid of it. The other third, they probably will just not be able to take to take the the to take the benefit. They just because they're just not, they just can't get there.

SPEAKER_04: 18:34

And I think the key thing, guess, just to remember is it this isn't about AI necessarily. Like it it applies if you think historically about those that did really well in those fast-paced environments. They're people that naturally enjoy new things and learning.

SPEAKER_03: 18:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04: 18:48

So if you take the word AI AI out of it, actually it's the same people that you would say, oh, learn this new software or learn this new.

SPEAKER_01: 18:59

100%. I agree with you, a hundred percent. Agree.

SPEAKER_04: 19:03

And I and I think those that you've seen do that are the people that you want in that AI space because they're comfortable, I guess, being an uncertainty. And I do think it's a skill set.

SPEAKER_01: 19:14

Yeah, and then plus, I mean, now that just there's so many young people that are entering the workforce that all they want to use is their phone, right? Whatever app that they're using, whatever application, whether it's in your tech stack, in your sales, accounting, HR, whatever, they want it to work just like their phone. And and unfortunately, it doesn't quite work that way, but but companies are trying to make it simpler and more uh user friendly to get their apps um organized. So young, younger, you know, younger folks are not turned off and they'll they'll engage with the application.

SPEAKER_04: 19:51

And so so rolling back around to the the growth and the scale, because obviously that's a key part of working in private equity. And you mentioned obviously in your your current Role, I think it was that you guys have grown twice over. Um, you know, how do you how do you plan for that kind of growth? What do you think about as a CFO? And and out of interest, was that something you already always intended to be, or was that just uh uh something that you managed to hit without necessarily wanting to?

SPEAKER_01: 20:20

You have you have to grow. I mean, there there's only one business model inside the private equity teams, is you have to grow. And it can't just be like it you need to grow profitably, right? Some companies are are growing unprofitably, chat GPT or OpenAI. I mean, they're they're growing, but very unprofitably, right? And so um, but for a normal PE firm, you have to grow profitably. And the only way you can do that is to get the right people and to get the right process and technology, right? It's it's it's really just those two things. So most people, he or she, when they go into that role, they know that that's the case. And the reason why they're being brought in is because typically the person before was not getting the job done. And it doesn't mean that it's ruthless, it just means that, you know, maybe that person had just cashed out and made a bunch of money and they're not interested in in doing that anymore. So um, and and there are different, there are different uh personalities across different uh PE groups, but for the most part, I've been fortunate that it's been that's been a great uh environment, a great relationship. And they definitely keep you on your toes and you learn something new every day. But but the thing is, there's there's market, there's market conditions that that force people to hold positions longer. And um, and it it is it is what it is, whether it's the economy, uh, it's the the market. I mean, there has to be MA baked into pretty to almost all deals. And that's just how you that's how you grow. And in order to to do the MA efficiently and productively, you have to have good people and you have to have good processes, you have to have good technology. So it's just a circle.

SPEAKER_04: 22:08

Yeah, I'm definitely sensing a theme as you go into that. So we'll let's let's explore MA, I guess. You know, when you're let's talk about because you've done quite a few. I think when I saw the the notes, it was over 40 different MA deals.

SPEAKER_01: 22:23

Yeah, so in the uh in the uh public company, we uh we uh we we started a uh radio business, so radio broadcasting. And um there were there were two companies in the long time ago in in the 90s that rolled up at almost every radio station in the U.S. And we were one of them. And we did probably two or three large deals every every year, and we did it for like five years, and ultimately it got sold to a company called Clear Channel. And I think what you realize then is that it's all about how do you because they're very competitive, and so so you have to be you have to you have to be very uh convincing, right, to sell to to convince people to sell them, sell their company to you, because there's somebody else that's coming in that is that's equal, their money is equally as green, right? So we had to sell them on why it was better to to come over with us. And so that was a hundred percent MA, um equity raises, debt raises, and uh people. And I think what you realize is the company that you have at you know two or three hundred million, you need a whole different team when it goes to seven to eight hundred million. And that's the one thing I that's when I learned, you know, scale. All right. So then that company, that company got sold. And then we went in, that's when I started doing the technology business. And so uh with that company, had many, many issues, losing money. And then we did like 10 deals over a period of like seven or eight years, and then we became a very, very profitable company that ultimately got sold to uh to uh private equity. And um just one story that what happens is you go in, you buy these companies, and then the people that you hired in your finance team, they they don't like you, right? They they don't they don't appreciate anything. So I remember one time the company was in San Francisco, the controller and the assistant controller, they just they left the resignation letter in a box, and I showed up and that's how they resigned. They didn't even have the decency. So I'm just saying, as as a CFO, you learn to pick up on different, you know, different signals in terms of how people are going to behave. And you know what? It happens. You just get you just got to move on. And actually it was great because then I you you're always my view is you're always able to replace somebody with a better person. And I think that's that's that's the mindset, is that it's just an opportunity to upgrade every position. And that's just the that's just the mentality that you have to have.

SPEAKER_04: 25:01

And you mentioned obviously some signals that you if you you know you pick up on sort of prior. What what do you look it for in the in the deal or the organizations that you're acquiring that will give you that, I guess, that insight into how they might behave come the acquisition?

SPEAKER_01: 25:17

Yeah, the the a lot of people play it close, like they'll just lie to you and they won't, they'll they'll they'll tell you all the right things that you want to hear, but it's it's all about that connectivity. Like you have to meet them, you have to go have go have coffee, go have lunch, or you you can you can really size people up very quickly once you spend you know an hour or two with them, and you can just tell if you ask them the right questions and you you just figure it out. It just it just happens. So I guess the answer is you just have to have engagement. There has to be back and forth. And I think once you do that, you can figure it out uh pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_04: 25:56

And that um seven, you know, uh seven years to take to do 10 deals potentially, you know, how did you build a deep a team that can cope with that? What what does the ideal MA team actually look like?

SPEAKER_01: 26:09

So the MA team was heavy on uh outsourcing. So we had we had speed dial numbers to investment bankers and and uh and due diligence teams. So as a small because we were a public company, as a as a public company, you just have to rely on third parties. So we had a go-to uh legal team outside legal. We had a go-to investment banker, go-to you know, commercial banker, you know, for for for the for the debt races. And that's really how that's how you can expand is to just have your Rolodex ready and uh people that you can trust and people that you uh you kind of go into battle with that you know what they can do. So for us, it was really more of outsourcing as opposed to bringing it. And once we got to a certain level, we had to bring in more people, whether it was legal, et cetera. But uh it gets back to the whole scale. Like you have to have your your systems right. You you have to be able to go in and take the checkbook over like day one. That's what that's always the key, is take the checkbook over on day one so you know where the cash is. And then it just takes time for uh whether it's sales or you know, marketing, product, et cetera. And if it's a technology company, it makes it a little more complicated.

SPEAKER_04: 27:25

So very often, like I've seen a couple of different types of MA, one where the the organizations are kind of left alone to do their own thing and kind of operate independently, and one where they're looking to gain some, you know, some return on investment via a shared services style setup. Like, have you worked across both? And and you know, what's your view on how that works well?

SPEAKER_01: 27:47

So in in the past, like we've always seen you buy companies for a couple of different reasons. You buy companies for their customer list, or you buy companies for their uh technology platform, and three, their people, right? So it's really those are the three reasons why you buy buy company, and we've done all of them. Um I think all of that is uh underpinned by you have to be on a comment system. They they have they they absolutely have to be on one back office system. And it may take a year or two to to get there, because uh when you when you do these M ⁇ As, you're always worried that you know, flight risk of the key people. So you try to sign them up and because there are times when you desperately want their people to stay. And um you do what you can with employment agreements, uh, et cetera. So uh, but underlying all that, you have to be on a common system. Because if you if you're not on a common system, it's gonna be very difficult. And they have to be made welcome and felt part of the team. And there's just there's just an entire ecosystem of how you got to make sure that people come over and they feel like they're part of a new company. But yet the other thing is we just always said just take best of breed, because you're always gonna have overlap. And just because you wear a red uniform or a blue uniform, it didn't matter. Who was the best person at the job, and just take that person? And we've always, we've always, I've always focused on that. It didn't really matter. Just whoever is the right best person for the job, then that's who we can go with. And that was always helpful for the for the target, for the company that got acquired.

SPEAKER_04: 29:32

And when it comes to that, because obviously there's you're you're dealing with a lot of emotions and change management when you're taking on those new organizations, you know, how do you, I guess, given the the amount of change that they're experiencing, keeping them on board and excited and getting into your organization, how how do you manage that change piece?

SPEAKER_01: 29:55

It's very difficult. And and the one thing we've done in the past is try to get a senior level person or two to come on board and and drink the Kool-Aid, if you will, and sing the praises. Because once you get one or two folks on the target side, then the other people that that had previously reported them, they feel more comfortable. Right. So whether it's the CFO or the CEO or the chief product or whoever it is, just get senior people at these companies to sign on, to sign on. And then all the the staff will see, oh, well, you know, Sally signed on. So that must mean that they're not horrible people, right? Because Sally wouldn't go work for a bunch of horrible people. Right. So that's that's what we've done in the past. Just is think of it as like a cascading effect.

SPEAKER_04: 30:46

So, and I guess that's a key part of your sort of your pre-purchase decision making is do you have those people that you can leverage and are they on board with what you're trying to achieve?

SPEAKER_01: 30:58

It's always been that way. And and you you do the best that you can. Because at the end of the day, you really don't know these people. You meet them, you go to dinner, and you you try to size them up, but um you just have to give them the uh the belief that one plus one equals four, right? That's what they have to believe, that one plus one equals four. It meaning the combination of the two companies really has this flywheel impact. And for the most part, they they like that.

SPEAKER_04: 31:28

Yeah. And and you know, convinced an accountants that one plus one equals four is not necessarily an easy thing to do, but it's it's a it's a really great example of of of what you're saying. And and when you look back over the years when you you um you know, the amount of deals you've done, are there any kind of things that you now go, right? You know, the the common mistakes that you made at the beginning or learnings that you had during that process?

SPEAKER_01: 31:53

Yeah, I think, I think for just from my my view is that things are not as bad as what you think they are, and they're not as good as what you think they are. So, so most of the time when you're buying a company, there is a set of projections that you look at, and most companies just do an immediate 25 or 30% haircut. And say, well, they're just trying to sell the company, right? And so you automatically have a discount that's applied to their revenues and cash flows, et cetera. So that just happens automatically. But I think the other thing is that try not to get too high and try not to get too low, right? Because there's a lot of value in the business, even though maybe they were aggressive with their revenue and their their targets, et cetera. And I think the other thing is that the reason why you bought the company is that there was something good that was happening, whether it was technology, they have blue chip customers. I mean, like in the radio days, there were blue chip customers everywhere. So you just have to then, okay, make sure that those customers know who you are and know that, you know, the service that they were receiving is going to be equal to or better than what they had before. And so you you really, you really have to focus on that's why it just brings up the due diligence, right? You do you have to do as much diligence as you possibly can.

SPEAKER_04: 33:17

So I always find it really hard to explain to people why they should choose ITAS as their financial transformation or stage partner. So rather than me tell you how awesome we are, I'm gonna let our customers do it.

SPEAKER_02: 33:31

So we decided to go with ITAS because when we were looking for a partner, we felt that they not only took the time to understand our business and they knew the needs of everyone on the team or everyone that would be using the system, but they also were very transparent in kind of what they could do, what they couldn't do. And prior to having us, you know, sign anything or make any agreements, they held meetings with us to walk them through our processes and our business so that they really understood everything that would need to be done and give give us realistic timelines as well. And another thing was because we were so new and we didn't have a current system going, um, we were looking for something that we could implement rather quickly, but also do it correctly. And we felt that iPaths would be able to do achieve both of those in terms of yeah, understanding our business and and implementing it and how we wanted it, but also doing it in our rather quick timeline.

SPEAKER_04: 34:33

And have you got any top tips for I guess how people look at the forecasts of the companies or acquirements? Because, like you say, you know, sometimes they can be a little bit optimistic.

SPEAKER_01: 34:45

How do you approach getting to understand where we would have to have a separate podcast to go through all those questions? But I would say just the the top 10 is it's really about it's really about asking about the customers and asking what do the customers like and what do they not like about your about your service, right? And that's what I'm just most familiar with is service technology, you know, subscriptions. And it's really like it's all starts with the customer, customer, um, customer calls, like customer reference calls. You know, it it really comes down to the customer, and then it comes down to the um the the product. You know, do you feel confident that they haven't starved the product? Did the product get all the updates that they needed to? The financial, you can hire third-party firms to go in and just do all the, they can do all the financials and bubble up, hey, these are the these are the 20 items that you need to go follow up on. But it's really like the customers.

SPEAKER_04: 35:45

And as an acquiring CFO, how do you find the balance between getting value for money from a purchase and not alienating the company that you're picking up? What, you know, how do you, you know, in that due diligence period period where you might find something that could impact the deal, how do you approach that?

SPEAKER_01: 36:04

Well, I just I said a minute ago, so there's good and bad. So you have to assume that there's gonna be good and there's gonna be bad. And you can only hope that, and if you've done this long enough, you know that there's gonna be five good things and five bad things, and you just go into it knowing that's gonna happen. And you just you just brace for the impact and you just be ready and you just know. So then when it happens, you're not surprised. Yeah. And you've and you've identified these and you just and you move on. I think the other thing is a lot of times when you buy these companies, people can can make a lot of money at the target. So they may they're they're their their desire to do different things expands, right? So they just may decide, you know what, I'm ready to go do something else. And that's fine. I've told everybody that I don't want to, you know, when I see people, you know, five years down the road, don't need to be any hard feelings. It was just you just move on.

SPEAKER_04: 37:01

And you know, we've we've talked we've talked a huge amount in in the 30 minutes that we've had here on the podcast. But if you had to give some top tips to a CFO, perhaps transitioning into private equity for the first time, um, what would what what top tips would you give them?

SPEAKER_01: 37:22

I would say a couple things. I would say um get to know the CEO very well. So the CEO-CFO relationship is like is critical because the problem is the private equity team will call the CFO, and you just have to make sure that you're not giving information that the CEO didn't know. So so one is get to know the CEO, don't get cross, don't get crossed with the with the with the CEO. That's number one. Number two, try to get to know as much, try to anticipate as much as you can the uh the requests that are going to come from the private equity team. And it's all about looking around the corner and trying to figure out okay, what just anticipate what if this happens, this is what they're going to ask for. And so anticipate as much as you can. And then the third thing is get people that are loyal to you as your lieutenants. You just have to have you just have to have very loyal people. Loyal, smart, hardworking, et cetera. And uh the only fourth thing I would say is uh really focus on technology because if you're not really heavy into technology, I think you'll probably get left behind. Unfortunately.

SPEAKER_04: 38:34

And you've obviously mentioned the CEO relationship as a as a key factor in the success, you know, for that, for that organization. When you're looking at your next your next role and what you're going to take on, what are some of the questions you asked to figure out if it's a good fit for for you and you know, your whether it's something that you feel like you could do well?

SPEAKER_01: 38:58

Uh well, it would be it would be uh it would be nice if it was in a similar like vertical, something that I I knew very well. That would be number one. Number two is uh just needs to be a challenge. Like I need I need a challenge. I can't, I just it just can't be like a normal like company. It needs to have some catalyst, whether it was just a an acquisition or you know, they were having trouble with this or that. I just need uh anything that's a little more challenging is is interesting. And the good news is there's a lot of challenges everywhere. So that's not that's not a problem. Uh and really just people that uh enjoy being around. Because you're gonna wind up spending so much time with these people. It's it's it's nice to get to know them and have a relationship with them.

SPEAKER_04: 39:47

And if you had to sort of give some guidance to an a CFO, perhaps not new to role, but maybe done a few um private equity gigs before, and you know, what should they be thinking about? in the first hundred days in in that new role.

SPEAKER_01: 40:06

So I guess one would be just fact finding. Just ask as many possible questions. Cause the only way that you're going to know what's going on is to probably ask questions. It's very doubtful that people will just tell you what's going on. Right? So I always have a joke, you know, you played 20 questions, you should have played 21 questions. It's the one question that you didn't ask is the one that, you know, is going to be a problem. So unfortunately things are not always documented the best way in most most a lot of companies. So it's really all it's up to the new CFO to just ask and be thoughtful. Don't don't jump to any conclusions. You know, because it just that's just me. I mean something may be very obvious that's wrong but uh I would just temper all that until you've had a chance to talk to everybody and you feel comfortable. I remember when I came, I think after a hundred days I wrote you know that was my hundred day you know memo about what I've seen. So I mean so it that's a thing, right? So it it is a thing about your first hundred days. So unfortunately my my hundred days were caught up in COVID. So it was it was it was difficult.

SPEAKER_04: 41:25

I think that's a really great topic for another podcast uh CFO in a crisis. So amazing.

SPEAKER_01: 41:32

Well thank you so you go it's from one calamity to the next but that's okay.

SPEAKER_04: 41:37

Yeah and I think it's I genuinely feel like it's a skill set. There's some people that are um not comfortable in chaos I'm not sure what the the the tone term is but it's uh I think sometimes you just got to be prepared to to to roll your sleeves up and get get into the weeds. So well thank you so much Omar for a fantastic podcast loads of insights packed into 40 minutes. So um obviously um if people want to learn more about you and about Trintech, where is the best place to find you?

SPEAKER_01: 42:10

Sure. Uh definitely trintech.com so we sell we sell uh software to the office of the CFO. So uh anybody that would be interested we'd be happy to have a conversation with you and uh you can hit me on my LinkedIn uh website as well.

SPEAKER_04: 42:26

Brilliant and thank you to um our our listeners as well for for joining this podcast. If there are questions I should have asked because I'm always looking for inspiration um or a particular area that you found interesting of course do reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'd love to know what else and where you'd like me to dig a little deeper.

SPEAKER_00: 42:43

Thanks so much Omar for joining me thank you to our listeners have a good week yeah thank you so much Omar now for the one million pound question what is the best finance software for your business is it A stage 50 is it B stage 200 standard C stage 200 professional or D stage intact an impossible question to answer without a lifeline but we have the perfect lifeline for you our free quiz which stage product is right for you will tell you which product is the best fit for your business in just five minutes. All you need to do is head to www.itasolutions.co.uk and answer a few simple questions