CFO 4.0 - The Future of Finance

238. CFO Stories | Cashflow, Credibility & Creative CFOs: Scaling Startups with Andrew Brummer

• Hannah Munro

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In this episode of CFO 4.0, Hannah Munro chats with Andrew Brummer, CFO at Distributed, about the realities of finance leadership in early-stage and high-growth businesses. From managing cashflow crises to building future-ready finance teams, Andrew shares lessons from his unconventional journey and startup experience.

Topics covered include:

  • Andrew’s unique path from event management to CFO
  • Building lean, scalable finance functions for startups
  • Managing cashflow challenges with creativity and clarity
  • The strategic role of FP&A in early-stage businesses
  • Navigating investor relationships across VC and PE
  • Advice for new CFOs on due diligence, early wins, and adding value fast

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Welcome to CFO 4.0, the future of finance. The CFO role is changing rapidly, moving from cost controller to strategic visionary, and with every change comes opportunity. We are here to help you take advantage of this transition to win at work, drive your career forwards and lead with confidence. To win at work, drive your career forwards and lead with confidence. Join Hannah Munro, managing Director of ITAS, a financial transformation consultancy, as she interviews key experts to give you real-world advice and guidance on how to transform your processes, people and data. Welcome to CFO 4.0, the future of finance.

Hannah Munro:

So hello everybody, and welcome to this episode of CFO 4.0. I'm your host, hannah Monroe, and with I can't even get my words out this morning. This is a great start to a podcast, and with me today is Andrew Brummer, so Andrew is the CFO of Distributed. So welcome, andrew. Fabulous to have you on the podcast.

Andrew Brummer:

Delighted to be here. Thank you very much for having me.

Hannah Munro:

Yeah, that's a bit of an inauspicious start, isn't it? Stumbling over my words, my own name, but hopefully you will get better, guys, I promise. So, andrew, let's start with the hopefully the easy question what was your journey to CFO?

Andrew Brummer:

So, yeah, I started as well. I didn't start up in accountancy at all. I started my career in event management. I did that for three or four years. Even in my wedding speech I I'm never going to be an accountant. And then, having done event management for three or four years, decided that actually accountancy offered me a pathway to sort of the things that I was interested in doing. By that point the bigger accountancy firms were not particularly interested in me. I was, I think, 26, 27. They want people fresh out of out of university, um.

Andrew Brummer:

So I went to a smaller firm, the talk 50 firm, aaron berling gardener um, trained there, um as a chartered accountant, um and while I was there, got some um, I was parachuted into one of their clients. One of their clients, the financial controller, left One Christmas, didn't come back and left the books in a bit of a mess and I was parachuted in there, Was there for about six weeks, really enjoyed my time there and I thought once I qualified I'd much rather go down the commercial route than staying in practice. And I thought once I qualified I'd much rather go down the commercial route than going that staying in in practice. So um then took a couple of jobs in um. One in a startup business, media audits, which was owned by Barclays Ventures, private equity backed, helped them get through um a successful sale process. So that was, and did due diligence on that.

Andrew Brummer:

So that was. That was a great start. Then went to a sugar brokerage in the city as their financial controller. I was there for three years and then took my first number one job in finance at fitbug, which was really the first company in the wearable technology space. So it was a aim listed company. So it's in the wearable technology space. So it was an aim-listed company. So it's in the space that's dominated now by Bit, and I was there for six years. But that was my first foray into being a CFO.

Hannah Munro:

So that's how I got to the CFO seat, and what are you most proud of?

Andrew Brummer:

as a CFO, what is your sort of your biggest achievement, do you think? Oh, that is a great question. I think a couple of things have been. The businesses that I have tended to be in have been sort of early stage and growth businesses, so a key part of that been um raising finances to, um to grow those businesses, um, so um. It's really been the lifeblood of those businesses and, and probably in my career I've raised in excess of 75 million pounds of debt and equity finance to help those businesses and promote those businesses to grow. So I think that's probably laying the foundations for future growth has probably been the thing I'm most proud of. Obviously, there's lots of things that come after that and build on top of that in terms of getting involved in strategy and pricing and all sorts of things that the CFO. But I think fundamentally I think that setting the platform for future growth is probably the thing that that I'm most proud of.

Hannah Munro:

And I think every CFO has a particular area of skill set. I know we all want to be perfect at everything, but I think we all everyone has a particular area of skill set. I know we all want to be perfect at everything, but I think we all everyone has a particular area. They're really good.

Andrew Brummer:

I've got a lot of experience in what's yours so it's probably not a good thing to say, but a lot. Although I've raised lots of capital for growth, uh, a number of the companies that I've been in early stage had potentially running short of funds as well. So, a lot of work around cash flow management, cash flow forecasting, but also looking at a lot of work on reducing costs, doing an overview of the business, see what's performing well, what's not performing well, um, and also, um, yes, getting those businesses through those difficult times. So I've had lots of difficult experiences, uh, been in companies in difficult positions and to get them out of those positions and and to, as I say, uh, present that platform for future growth is probably where my sweet spot lies. So, uh, yeah, it, it. They've gone on to enjoy growth.

Hannah Munro:

But I I've definitely seen some, a number of difficult situations and worked, worked the companies through those with, with, obviously, with the help of investors and other senior leaders that's an interesting you know area to explore is I don't think we talked about enough some of those cash flow challenges and how we look at that so you know when you've gone into organizations where they face those cash flow difficulties, how, where do you start?

Andrew Brummer:

so I think you you start with what what may seem the most straightforward things, but making sure that, from a cash collection point of view, that that process is as tight as it possibly can be. So, in terms of invoicing, making sure invoices are going out on time, they're correct, but making sure that they're being sent to the right people, making sure that everything to do with the invoices is right so that when they are received, the customer is at least in the position to pay them if they need purchase orders. Make sure all those details are correct. I think that's the first thing. Then it's um ensuring that there is a a process for um collecting those debts. So, um, whether it is and it it varies from business, business, but um checking that they, the customers, receive the invoices after two weeks or whatever the correct period is, depending on the date, the number of days they've got to pay the invoice, but making sure that they've received it, checking that everything is in order if there's any questions about it, just making sure and then getting updates from them on on payment dates. So so I think the first thing really is to look at the money coming in and making sure you're doing everything you can to accelerate that process as far as possible. So a good example is in my current business um, our death to days were about 100 days before I joined and we have gotten down to about 30 days. So, again, this is just through, yeah, but the business has needed. It just been, uh, and I've been supported by some fantastic people, um, team, um.

Andrew Brummer:

But it's really to make sure that we are on top of all the debt issue the debt issue, making sure, as I say, the invoices go out on time. We're in regular communication with our customers and if there are any problems that we are looking to resolve them. We even got one of our customers who traditionally we've been billing on, so they've been billing on 30 day terms, which is fine at the end of each month, but they actually agreed to for us to build them mid-month as well, so we could invoice them 50 percent of the monthly invoice um mid-month. So we were and we were were able to collect the money much faster than that. So it's just looking for greater solutions and some customers might not mind. For instance, we also have one of our other customers. We gave them a small invoice discount for them to make sure that they paid their invoices on time, but the value of the money to us in the bank was much greater than the, the small percentage we gave up.

Andrew Brummer:

So it's just looking at creative solutions to make sure that the the cash is the cash is coming in as as soon as possible. So I think that's on the, on the cash collection side, and then you have the the other side, which is a bit trickier. So I think there's on the cash collection side, and then you have the other side, which is a bit trickier. So I think there's lots of things in relation to credit payments. So it's priority and I learned this very early in my first job at Media Audit, where cash was short and we also had to manage it internationally. We had offices in seven or eight territories, mainly across Europe, and some of those offices would have requirements at different times. So it was about prioritizing different things. So you have to find out what were the most important things. So payroll contractors, hmrc, are things that are less flexible potentially than other things.

Andrew Brummer:

Um, but at the same point, also, again, it's about communicating again with with your, your creditors. Don't just not pay them if you can at least tell them when you're going to do things why you're doing things and you can stick to your plans, then generally, I have found that suppliers are very understanding. When you have short-term cash flow difficulties, I think if you go quiet on them, don't tell them anything and just don't pay them, that's when they escalate things and it becomes much more difficult. But they're part of your stakeholder group, so so you need to, you need to work with them, um. So so, working with them, we have been able to get out of some very difficult situations through, as I said, prioritizing and then negotiations, and then I think the third thing to look at is is look at the overall cost space.

Andrew Brummer:

Um, a number of businesses I've been in we've had to cut costs, and whether that is personnel costs or whether that's looking at the overall infrastructure, whether that's technology costs, legal costs, of course, there are all sorts of marketing costs.

Andrew Brummer:

I know one of the businesses I was in. They were spending a huge amount of marketing each month, but they were doing some marketing and actually there were areas that geographical areas that we couldn't service as a business, but they were still spending quite a lot of money advertising. So it's just looking at what the business needs at various times. Some things can't be changed and again, sometimes you can speak to suppliers, renegotiate contracts. There's a myriad of things that you can do in order to lessen the immediate burden, and some people might say that that pushes the pushes the problem back. But, but in many startup businesses, that's what you need to do. It's uh, it's a problem solved today? And if it's yes, it might be a problem in six months, but at least you've got six months to find new revenue, do other things, find investment whatever the other answers are but to buy time and cash is is king in these startup businesses so you've worked with startups right.

Hannah Munro:

You've taken them sort of on that journey. How do you go about thinking about how to build a finance function for the future, so you know when? Do you know when to bring a new resource? How do you think about scalability, those kind of things?

Andrew Brummer:

so I think many uh startups when they, when they're looking to bring in a finance leader or cfo, the finance function has often been lags behind the rest of the business. So I've been into businesses where it's 20 million turnover business, so they've grown the business right, but they don't have a finance function and you just think how have they survived this long? And they've been using an outsourced account and that sort of thing. So I've tried to work with the rest of the management team to become much more of a business partner. Um, the finance function shouldn't just be about uh providing financial reporting, financial number. I mean that's a key part of what they do, but it's adding much more value. So, again, it's not building an empire in a day. It's not looking to have five or six people bring them in immediately and say this is my finance team. It's building small, agile teams which you then add to as and when the business requirements are needed. So, um, first thing is to understand whether you are able to do the basics in terms of the financial accounting and the reporting and making sure that that reporting is done in good timelines and that you're adding value to the reports that you're providing. Again, it's not a huge value doing management reports which are received two, three weeks after the month end because it's old information. You want to give them as as current information as possible.

Andrew Brummer:

I've also particularly found that having an fpna function is it where that often that goes under the radar and and to do the analysis that is required um about how the business is performing in all sorts of different areas and that adds a huge amount. So that is a the if I ever sort of um have to champion a particular resource or a particular area that the business doesn't have, that's often one um where I will try and seek an additional resource. But again, it depends on on on the business. But I think an fpna you can add huge value and huge uh analysis and look at huge amounts of data and provide some really top quality information um that can help the business make much smarter decisions. So it's it's I can't give you a precise time and this is when to do it.

Andrew Brummer:

Like you get to this much turnover or this many it it's different from for each businesses and generally what I've done is relatively small teams and then add to them as and when it feels right for the business to it on its growth journey, that that it requires it. But I and I've done it the other way as well. I so, um, I've started with with much larger teams and sort of cut them down to two or three, because, again, the business may not require the sort of um, uh, level of detail or the level of detail is probably the wrong word but the probably doesn't need the amount of resources that that dedicates you, I think, very much as finance in a startup. You feel you have to justify the cost um to the business, because I I've been in situations where they've just said, oh yeah, we think the finance department is costing too much and we're going to get rid of you. So, yeah, that was an interesting experience.

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Hannah Munro:

With the FP&A resource. That's an interesting spend point, even for a smaller business, because that can be quite an expensive resource depending on how you approach it. How do you, how do you, justify the value of that, and in what instances have you found that really valuable?

Andrew Brummer:

yeah, so, um yeah, that's a great, great question, I think I think what you always have to do as a CFO, with management, senior management particularly I've worked with a number of founders and CEOs is if you can convince them that the quality of the information, the speed of the information that they're going to get is going to help them make better decisions, smarter decisions, quicker decisions. I think, if you can prove things with data, I think that is really valuable to founders and to leaders and I think I think they can see, they can often see the benefit of of that information on the business, because they often they are. All the founders I've worked with have been incredible people and they're so passionate about their, their businesses. But they often see the incredible people and they're so passionate about their businesses, but they often see the business in one or two particular ways, whatever has been worked successfully for them, so they never necessarily see other ways of looking at it.

Andrew Brummer:

So often I think it's the job of a CFO to sort of bring up other approaches and to look at other ways of looking at things, and I think often an FP&A person can help with that analysis. I think, yes, they are. They're not necessarily the cheapest resource, but also great FB&A people can probably do things on Excel and all sorts of databases and things that are much quicker than me. So I think they're going to probably pay me even my CFO salary to do all this data analysis. Or we can look to to bring a resource in who's going to be much more agile, much more savvy, um, um and sort of. Let me, as CFO, concentrate on other areas of the business where I can probably add much more value.

Hannah Munro:

I'm talking about sort of concentrating on other areas of the business. So you mentioned, obviously, that you've worked in private equity. You've worked with different, I guess, business structures, shall we say.

Andrew Brummer:

You know just focusing on the private equity piece.

Hannah Munro:

You know how. How do you find working with private equity? What are the pros and cons, what's good, what's not? You know what have you seen?

Andrew Brummer:

um, yeah, very much depends on the, on the different um, on the different organizations and also and also sort of where you are in your journey and what their expectations have been. So also sort of depends where, where I have come into the business and the credibility I I have brought to to that stage, um, so I think, I think that generally, I think, look, they want, they obviously want the businesses to succeed, um, but it it, as I say, it sort of can can very much depend on what their experience of the business has been. So one particular recent experience was that the business had been hitting it it was before my time but consistently hadn't been hitting the milestones and the VC or the private equity backer had been sort of they'd been very much focusing on growth of the business and growth at all costs. And then it gets to a point where they actually say, well, actually it's not growth at all costs, actually we want a much more sustainable growth and it's not necessarily something that we just want to keep throwing money at it. So it's then some difficult decisions that have to be had internally to to keep you on on on the journey path.

Andrew Brummer:

So it's, but I think, good vcs, good, uh, private equity companies, I think they they are tend to be very, very supportive and they understand some of the they they've seen it and done it as well, in the same way that I've probably seen and seen it and done it a few times.

Andrew Brummer:

So generally I found them to be very supportive and understanding of some of the trials and tribulations that that startups go through. So I think one of the other things is is I've been in a couple of businesses which has sort of had to pivot as well in terms of their commercial structure. So an early company I was in, as I said, was Fitbug, which was one of the first wearable technology companies. It became much more difficult to compete against the likes of Fitbit or Watch because obviously you have very well capitalized businesses that are in the same space and it's just very difficult to compete. So, again, looking to find other solutions and making sure that your backers whether, as I say, whether BC PE can understand that journey and support you in that and understand why you're making those decisions and do you find a massive difference in how the bc versus the p world operated?

Andrew Brummer:

slightly. They they certainly have slightly different. They potentially have different time frames and and different interests. So I found pe backers a bit much more generally supportive and and not the vcs haven't been, but much more essentially much a bit more patient. Um and again, it sort of depends where they are in their their own journey as well, but but that that's been my experience so far and I like that term.

Hannah Munro:

They're a little bit more patient, not a term you would normally associate with PE, um, but it's a good. So that's an interesting piece and obviously you've worked with um. You know businesses at the early stage. How did you, I guess, manage the the conversation around like we want to grow and want to grow fast, but maintaining, I guess, the getting the right speed of an organisation and making sure finance can match it. So you know, how did you think about speed of growth and how did you build forecasts and models that are actually achievable versus something that's a bit pie in the sky?

Andrew Brummer:

One of the great I mean mean one of the great difficulties of being a cfo in a in an early state or relatively early stage business. Because, yes, because, as you say, anyone, not anyone. But it's relatively easy to build a model saying you're going to go from 20 to whatever, whatever the figure 10, 20, 50, 100 million in four years and it's you're going to get this many clients. So it's. I think you have to build up credibility, um, with the backers and I think, um, you have to. I mean, the way I do it is it's no point finance, finance, just building a model and saying to everybody else in the organization here's my model. Have you got any comments? I think it has to be a much more collaborative effort by the whole team. So, generally, I will start off potentially with the CEO to get an overall impression and maybe to understand sort of what he sees the numbers are, and then speak to the individual heads of departments, so whether that's so that will be chief revenue officer. What is a realistic sale like? How's that made up? It's not just saying it's going to go from this to this, it's how it's going to go to this, what's. What are the different metrics within that. So how many new customers are you going to get? How many customers are you going to lose over the period? What size of the customer? Looking at all those different things, which also means the model is much more flexible and you can change aspects of it, and that will sort of change you.

Andrew Brummer:

I I think if you just say it's going to go from this to this, it has to be much more detailed, and the same with things like marketing technology. It's like okay, if sales are saying this, you're going to need to get this many clients, how many? So it it's. It's a much more involved process through everybody in management. It's not. I don't think you should just be looked at as finance is building a model. It has to be um, everybody in the organization is brought into to a model and and part of that model is then well, if we're going to grow at this speed and that is what we need and how do we then grow teams? It's not just the finance teams, it's teams throughout the business. When do you need to bring on additional senior resources? How many there's? There's probably there's hundreds of questions about, about the, about the team and functions in the business and how you're going to do it. So, um yeah, I don't think it's just a question about building up the finance function or when you need extra resources. It's resources throughout the business.

Hannah Munro:

I think that's a really good point. I think sometimes you know we can just throw numbers on a spreadsheet without actually digging into how you know, validating the numbers that go underneath it and playing the what-if scenarios, as it were correct.

Andrew Brummer:

Yes, yeah, and so when I build models, it I I build some flexibility that people then can can change various numbers and obviously that will then impact the numbers throughout. So if, if you're going to say you're going to get three big clients one year, or if it's five big clients, it makes a huge difference to the overall numbers and that will impact everything throughout the spreadsheet. If you can follow it, if the whole model follows through, and that's why I say that. Going back to your original question, if you can get good FBA and APAS, they are much better at building financial models than I am, although I have done my fair share over time.

Hannah Munro:

Absolutely. I'm starting to see the value of that FP&A person emerge from this conversation. So we've talked a lot about, obviously, the joys of working in a small business, how to build it for growth and how to take it forward. But when you look back on your career as the CFO, what was your biggest challenge?

Andrew Brummer:

I was actually thinking about this before we started, just thinking, oh, that that might be that, like that. That's the sort of question that I would ask someone I was having a conversation with about this. So I think I I thought of, I think, two or three particular um examples. I think um one. I was in a business where the CEO had many outstanding qualities. The person had raised a huge amount of capital for the business, managed the board brilliantly, very passionate about the business. But I felt when I came in as a finance person that they didn't necessarily share all the information with me and that I found really, I think if you're going to go into a business as the main finance person, you either have the whole picture or it becomes almost impossible. So the only decision then you can have is which I did and then if that, if it doesn't, if you don't feel things change, then you move on. So I was there for just over a year because I just didn't feel that I had the sort of the full picture and I just think you can't make informed finance um decisions if you don't have the full picture, because it's just impossible.

Andrew Brummer:

I think another, another example um, as I said, I've worked with many passionate um founders and sometimes, as I said, sometimes they have um a particular vision for the business, and I'm not saying they're not saying that's wrong, but, as I say, I think part of the job of CFO sorry, the founder was particularly set on one particular approach and I was very passionate about it and I didn't feel it was necessarily the right approach. But I can't just, there's no value in me arguing with them. You have to provide them a certain rationale. So I went away and tried to prove it through through that way, rather than, as I said, I'm not going to compete. I shouldn't be able to compete with their passion.

Andrew Brummer:

But I think, with my analysis and as long as I'm cool headed, remain calm under pressure, I think that's what they they want to see in a CFO. So I've had some situations where, through that, I've then been able to have conversations, whether my way at least you can have a meaningful conversation. So I think that's definitely been one of the challenges throughout my career is to work with uh ceos, founders who are very passionate, but just to look at alternative ways of looking at some of the problems and issues facing the business yeah, and I think most of us would agree that founders and owners like they've got to where they've got to because they've had very strong views and passion and they've just leapt perhaps before they've looked, how do you?

Hannah Munro:

when they're bringing you in, they're obviously at a point where they need that extra pair of eyes, looking over the precipice before they jump. How do you help a ceo, a founder, to kind of lean into your resource for that, because you, you know they might have been, if they've not had a CFO before, particularly that might be a new piece for them. So how do you approach that?

Andrew Brummer:

Yeah, so normally I try and have a sort of a 30-day plan and then a sort of 100-day plan, just as a sort of a way ofday plan, and then a sort of a 100-day plan just as a as a sort of a way of going into a business.

Andrew Brummer:

So always look for some.

Andrew Brummer:

If I don't know if they're called easy wins, but if there are things that you can improve quickly and provide, whether it's helping the profitability or the cash flow of the business, then then I think they can see straight away that you're adding some value to the business.

Andrew Brummer:

So if you can get some of those easy wins, please, please, go ahead and chalk them off, because that I think that that provides shows your your value very early on.

Andrew Brummer:

So I think that's a that's a really good, good start and then I think, once you've, once you've been able to do that, you can sort of put your imprint on other areas of the business and, again, being cool under pressure, calm, analysis of situations, showing where growth is possible, where savings can be made, where cash flow can improve, where time timelines can can be shortened or whatever things, and getting involved also in in, also in sort of non-financial areas of the business, which is also something that may they may not have expected. So I know somewhere very early on I I went in and they didn't have any KPIs in the business. So again, speaking to other senior stakeholders in the business, understanding what the key drivers for each of their departments were and stepping out a series of KPIs. So it doesn't just have to be financial metrics, it can be a whole gamut of things in the business which I think, through that you can show the value you are providing.

Hannah Munro:

And we've talked a lot. I think we started actually the conversation with that concept of value and being more than that number cruncher, you know, bookkeeper, finance person. So maybe it's my last question. We'll see how this one goes. It may not be my last, but how do you really make sure that in that CFO role you're offering strategic value? So you know, how do you get away from that perception of finance from being a cost to more of an investment?

Andrew Brummer:

That's good. So I think you very much have to be a right hand person to the CEO. There's no point being a yes man. You have to be someone there who can sort of challenge them, but someone whose opinion they're going to value either. If you say yes the whole time, then you're not. Uh, that's not a cfo's role. It's something to think of the cfo's role to say no all the time. It's also not to say yes all the time. It's to be a a different um, a different voice in the room looking at sort of but looking at the sort of the financial impacts of the decision making process.

Andrew Brummer:

But I also think it's getting involved and not so I've been in businesses where, as I said, we've had to pivot. So it's, it's coming up with you as a finance person. I know not necessarily meant to be the most creative or or have strengths in marketing, but I think you have to have strengths in all sorts of areas. So, whether it's marketing, product innovation, you should know the business better, almost better than anyone else. So it's looking for new ideas in the business and analyzing those ideas and suggesting notes. It's it's it being a ideas generator as well as as a, as a number crunch, and I think that's how you can get involved in in in more strategic areas.

Andrew Brummer:

It's coming up with solutions, not just it shouldn't just be saying, oh, we've got a problem here or this is, you know, our numbers aren't looking good. It's coming up with solutions, and those don't have to be financial solutions. They can be, as I say, new products, new target audience, target markets, whatever they are. Just, maybe something else that someone hasn't thought about, because often people in the startup world are very focused on this is this is how we've done it, or look at creative solutions. So it's to be creative, but not with the numbers, but in other ways as well yeah, creative and accounting don't yeah absolutely brilliant.

Hannah Munro:

Well, this has been an absolute blast, andrew. Thank you so much for sharing your your knowledge and insight with our audience and to our audience. If you've enjoyed this podcast, then, as always, please do leave us a review, send me a message if you've got any questions. I should have asked andrew. I'm always happy to to follow up and come back to you. So, andrew, you know. Final question for the day If you had to give some advice to a new CFO, as a new into the CFO role or a new into a new organisation, what would it be?

Andrew Brummer:

That's interesting. I would advise them before they go in. That's first of all I would. I would always say to them do some due diligence before you go into an organization so you know exactly what you're getting into. If they've had a cfo before, find out exactly um, why, why your predecessor has left, and see if there are, and make sure you get to see the numbers, their growth plans, various other things before you know. It's definitely the right opportunity, because I've been to a couple of places where they promise you the earth and you go in and very soon it's a very different picture.

Andrew Brummer:

So the first thing I would say is whatever in terms of numbers forecast, if they've got things that you can see and ask them questions about those forecasts and about those numbers and what customers have you secured and various things, and what customers have you secured and various things Be the exact thing that you should be doing when you're CFO.

Andrew Brummer:

Don't be afraid to do it before you're the CFO, because I think they would potentially value that as well. Once you're in the organization, I would make it your point to make sure that you understand the product fully and that you meet people throughout the organization at different departments, different levels. So I would spend as much time as you can getting really under the skin of the business to understand what each of the different departments do, what their strengths, weaknesses are, identify areas where you can add value and, as I say, if you can get some of those easy wins in the first 30, 50 days, whatever it is, then immediately the organization will see your value and obviously from that starting point you'll be able to hopefully grow and become very successful and the company will grow excited amazing.

Hannah Munro:

Well, thank you for that brilliant piece of multiple pieces of advice. Actually, I will say, andre, to finish our podcast if people want to know more about you, about your organization, where is the best place to learn?

Andrew Brummer:

so just about me. I'm on linkedin so you can just find out more about me there, um, and if you want to know more about distributed distributed, it's uh on the website distributedcom. Um, and uh, yeah, you can follow us there, um, and follow our journey fantastic.

Hannah Munro:

Well, thank you so much, andrew, and of course, we'll pop all of those links into the podcast and show notes. Thank you to andrew for sharing his story and thank you to our listeners for joining us on the cfo 4.0 podcast. One of the hardest things, I think, is actually putting into words what it means to work with myself and the team here at itas, because not only are we a financial transformation consultancy, but we do it using Sage technology. So rather than me tell you how awesome we are, let me introduce one of our customers.

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Working with ITAS has dramatically made our lives simpler because there's just such a knowledgeable team there to help us. Before we felt the consultants were working with another company. It was always a challenge to get information out of them, for them to understand the problem and it just didn't feel like they were on our team. Working with itas, it almost we feel like you are all employed with us to work with us to do it. It's an absolutely fantastic relationship and it's just made it such a smoother process and an absolute fun process working in Sage Intact and coming on our calls. I look forward to it now.

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